Trying to make house, but feels like I am failing

Questions about producing? Ask them here.
https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/dig-this

What am I doing wrong? Also would like feedback on what I made, I am quite happy with it, but does not feel like its house ?

When I say House I am thinking of tracks like this:
Feel free to correct me if those tracks aren't house. :)

Simon & Shaker - Zero (Original Mix Edit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiJ-rOA62W8

Frankie Knuckles - Your Love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl6uliNCkUU

Kraze - The Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxQQ04kN6M4
With the help from another forum, I made progress.

To sum i up, the basis is not bad but needs better mixing, and it needed some more variation.

Then words like saturater, spectrum analyzer came along. Complaints about the white noise hi hat.

Because its house, the kick drum and base line need to be most present, all else should be more at the background
One exception to this rule can be vocals. So my organ is way too loud.

Then I layered 2 kicks. One is side chaining the organ. (synth1)

First is the Kicker from LMMS, with end knob turned down almost all the way.

Then the famous 808 kick layered.

I have tried to side chaining more then once, but always failed up-till now.

My motivation to try it again was that as usual my kick was drowning in the mix.

I like to recommend these vid, I also think that I understand why I failed so many times before.
If the signal you try to side chain with, is very soft, it probably is not gonna work.

I now also understand the vid of side chaining made by musicbear.
He shows 2 ways, which can be a bit confusing, but one method he shows is exactly like in the other vid.

The triple oscillator with all 3 os set to white noise is the sound triggering, the side chain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntzWiufjkko

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il0OH4I0-LE


More progress
Been struggling for some time now, to get that typical (early) house hi hat.

The great news, it was in LMMS all that time already but more about that later.

It will not come as a surprised that the sample has 808 in the name.
bright_808_hat_3.ds

If you put this untouched in the song editor though, you're hi-hat is way toooo loooong.

The solution is simple, go to the envelop of the audio file processor, and turn down most of the hold and also turn down release and decay.

This gives a bit of a cut off effect, but that is exactly what I think I hear in this type of house.

So a big thank you to whom ever put this 808 hi hat in lmms. :D

This sample must be exactly what is used in house music with the real 808.
I only wonder how they changed the evelope.
Might be just a knob on the 808. :)


Gotta to have house music,
all night long
With that house music,
you cant go wrong

Notice the Hi hat, of which if I had mixed this, would probably not that loud.
Does it not sound like it gets cut off? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAR8cq5Bl94

I think I need to anal-ize the structure of this track.
How does this track hide its beyond repetitive :P

Already changed the structure of the track a bit.
Intro is now longer, and the first break is gone.
Gps wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:17 pm
With the help from another forum, I made progress.
KVR?
Then the famous 808 kick layered.
.. have to look into that 808-thing. I can understand from several threads that it is a 'thing' :p
I have tried to side chaining more then once, but always failed up-till now.
Remember that SC is just a dip in volume -You can 'draw' your SC as animation pattern
bright_808_hat_3.ds
envelop of the audio file processor, and turn down most of the hold and also turn down release and decay.
Yes! Big well done from here! DO experiment with the envelopes, not 'just' for volume, but indeed also for reso and Cutoff! Surprises are going to excite you, and inspire to new tracks!
I only wonder how they changed the evelope. Might be just a knob on the 808. :)
Well - in fact you will hear that 'extended' hihat in tracks from wayyy back in jazz recordings! Much earlier than the concept of working with an envelope! Its a percussionist skill where he drags a 'tool' that looks much like a leaf-rake, down over a cymbal, he then mute the cymbal with a precise two-finger grip, to make it fade out!
and all that without missing a single beat!
Notice the Hi hat, of which if I had mixed this, would probably not that loud.
Does it not sound like it gets cut off? :)

To me its too loud on that record. It dominates the soundscape. Its almost like they want to put more emphasis on hihat, than on the kick
How does this track hide its beyond repetitive :P
Does it.. idk..
It was Linux musicians, but I wonder with some reactions how they feel about house.
I do reed on kvr too sometimes, and I just did.

I read this topic, with hilarious reactions about the structure of a house track. ( Not every body is a fan :P )

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 9&t=439942
) boring intro bit
2) some more boring shit
3) drop from that other boring shit into some slightly different, but equally as boring, shit
4) breakdown- everybody needs some relief from the preceding boredom, right ?? :tu:
5) more boring stuff until the end/quote]

I am a fan or maybe should say I like some house tracks, but this really made me laugh :)

Some of the feedback was that my track was too repetitive, which at first kinda confused me.
Tempted to say, yes I am making house music. ;)

While listening again to you're love- knuckles, I had this moment were I realized a difference between its structure and the song structure of mine differ.

This is something I was doing wrong, and has been bothering me, why does me repeating the same over and over not sound like them doing it ?
I knew I was missing something, its a slight difference in the first and second 8 bar loop, in the below quote its called verse and Chorus.

Also from KVR.
Intro – 16 bars
Instrumental chorus – 16 bars
Verse – 8 bars
Chorus – 8 bars
Verse – 8 bars
Chorus – 16 bars
Verse – 16 bars
Chorus – 16 bars
Bridge – 24 bars
Breakdown – 8 bars
Chorus – 16 bars
Instrumental chorus – 16 bars
Outro – 16 bars

Mine has to much 8-8-8-8 all the same.

The house hi hat I am hearing in most you tube vids, and even other sounds used instead of a hi hat, sound way too loud mixed too me too.

Could it be they ? The recorded the record without they right amp, or software,

Music on vinyl records is specially mixed for being on a vinyl record, and the amps with a record player input, corrected this, so it sounded right again.

That why it sounded very bad, when you connected a record player, to a tape deck input.
This also happens if you just connect an (old) record player to a pc.


Allot of house seems to have a loud / very present, hi hat though.

Great info on the jazz hi - hat :D
So that why cutting of the sample with the envelope, sounds about the same.

Had more side chain fun. Added a calf side chain compressor to another instrument, the bass this time.
Connect to same controller as the other one and done. :)
Gps wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:42 pm
https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/dig-this

What am I doing wrong? Also would like feedback on what I made, I am quite happy with it, but does not feel like its house ?
This is close to house music. Not bad at all. It kinda sounds like late 80's house music.
I can tell, you got a bit of inspiration, from the Kraze party song, for this track. 8-)

Okay tips time:

a) I like that bass.
But think the bass, should be a tiny bit, more boomy sounding.

b) Maybe add some reverb to the clap sound.

c) Add in a few more audio vocal samples.
The "dig this" vocal sample, sounds cool. And can be used in the majority of the track.
But add in a few other vocal samples, to add some variety.

I hope that helps for now. If I think of anything more, I'll post more tips. :)

PS: I'm also working on a house song too. Moreso, a tropical house sounding track. :D
But I'm kinda stuck. :P
Thank you, and yes I am trying to make a house track from the time house started. :)

I already rerouted the bass, its not going to an all instrument channel any-more, but directly to main.
That helped making the bass more loud in the mix.

I also found another great vocal sample sample. I have no idea what she shouts, but that does not matter, its great for house.
Cool!

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