Loudness and effects - single and in the mix - questions

Questions about producing? Ask them here.
:arrow: https://lmms.io/documentation/

I'm on LMMS 1.1.3

1) By placing an effect directly on the instrument, there is only this instrument that will be affected by this effect (and this allows you to save your instrument preset with its effects); by placing an effect in the mixer, several instruments can be affected by this effect. I think these are the only usefull differences for users.


2) If I'm not mistaken, the VOL knob of an instrument acts on the signal before this signal enters the FX tab of the instrument. In this FX tab, the signal goes through the effects from top to bottom. Then the signal comes out of the instrument, goes into the mixer's EFFECTS CHAIN (from top to bottom) and then goes into the mixer's volume fader. So, the different volume knobs/faders that you find in LMMS act at different stages of the signal processing chain.


2a) In most cases, in LMMS the volume is displayed in % (you can change this via Edit>Configuratiion>Display volume in dB). If I'm not mistaken, the volume levels (velocity) of the piano-roll are relative to the VOL knob of the instrument. So, if the velocity value of a note in the piano-roll = 200%, the volume of this note will be multiplied by 2 relative to the value of the VOL of the instrument.

Regarding the volume, I would say that the only thing that really matters is that the gauge of your mixer's master channel does not reach 200% or 6.02dB.


2b) When you assign an instrument to a mixer channel (e.g. channel 1), by default, the signal passing through that channel will be sent to the master channel (channel 1 SEND to channel 0). The SEND knob allows you to send the output of one channel to the input of another channel. To illustrate the interest of the thing, consider the following case: I have three instruments (Kick, Snare, Hat), I assign each one of these instrument to a channel (Kick = channel 2, Snare = Channel 3, Hat = Channel 4). The gauges of each of these channels allows me to see and compare their levels. What I want to do is compress and put a reverb on these drums. What I can do (one solution among others) is grouping my instruments: I send channels 2, 3 and 4 to channel 1 that I rename DRUMS (and I remove their SEND to the master channel). And in this DRUMS channel, I put a compressor and a reverb. I only used one instance of compression and one instance of reverb (it's practical, it's economical because I can also put a compressor and a reverb on each drums, and treating my instruments in a grouped way this allows me to obtain certain effects that are difficult to obtain if I treat my instruments separately). The gauge of the DRUMS channel allows me to check the combined levels of my three drums, and to compare it to the channels from which they come.


2c) There is only the master channel that really matters, its gauge must not reach 200% or +6dB.


2d) https://lmms.io/wiki/index.php?title=Using_MIDI (it's easier to give a link than to try to explain :lol: )


3)
W/D = Wet/Dry.
0: the effect is not applied (the initial signal is not altered), so 0=100% dry
From 0 to 1: the effect is gradually applied, with 1 = 100% wet.
From 0 to -1: for me, it's not clear, it's as if the value -1 reversed the parameter values of the effect.

DECAY and GATE. For me, it's not clear. I feel that this parameters are inoperative on many effects.


4) https://lmms.io/wiki/index.php?title=Controller_Rack
adambeneter wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 am
D.Ipsum wrote: 1) By placing an effect directly on the instrument, there is only this instrument that will be affected by this effect (and this allows you to save your instrument preset with its effects); by placing an effect in the mixer, several instruments can be affected by this effect. I think these are the only usefull differences for users.
so thats only matter of comfort, cause you can do it separately also; and there is no need to linked 1 to 1 because there will be no additional results ?
Yes, we can see that as a matter of comfort.

Personally, I use both the FX tab of the instrument and the EFFECTS CHAIN ​​of the mixer.
In the FX tab of the instrument, generally, I place the effects that I use to design the instrument.
In the EFFECTS CHAIN ​​of the mixer, I generally place the effects to handle groups of instruments.

Regarding the mixer, some users only use the master channel of the mixer. Personally, I prefer to exploit the possibilities of the mixer:
1) Assign each instrument to a channel of the mixer (if I have too many instruments, I group several in the same channel). For example, I assign my Kick to a channel that I rename "Kick". Similarly, I assign my Snare to a channel that I rename "Snare". Etc.
2) Send these channels in group channels (SEND function) + add effects in these group channels. For example, I send the channels "Kick" and "Snare" to a channel that I rename "Drums" and I treat my drums with some effects.
3) Send these group channels (via SEND) into additional effect channels and channels dedicated to the finalization of the track (filters, EQ, compressor, limit, or other). In fact, in this step 3, everything depends on the current project. For example, I send my Drums channel in an additional effects channel (e.g. a reverb) and in my finalization channel (parallel processing principle playing with the SEND values).

adambeneter wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 am
D.Ipsum wrote: 2) If I'm not mistaken, the VOL knob of an instrument acts on the signal before this signal enters the FX tab of the instrument. In this FX tab, the signal goes through the effects from top to bottom. Then the signal comes out of the instrument, goes into the mixer's EFFECTS CHAIN (from top to bottom) and then goes into the mixer's volume fader. So, the different volume knobs/faders that you find in LMMS act at different stages of the signal processing chain.
signal processing chain - this is a beast, need to find about it;) and how to set it properly / on what it depends ...
Regarding the processing chain, imagine this: you have the VOL knob of the instrument, a compressor in the FX tab of this instrument, and the volume fader of the mixer.

So: VOL knob> compressor> volume fader.

If you change the value of the VOL knob, as this VOL knob acts before the compressor, it will change the result of your compression. If you change the value of the volume fader in the mixer, as this volume fader acts after the compressor, it will not change the result of your compression. Therefore, if there is a series of effects between the VOL knob and the volume fader, changing the values ​​of one or the other may result in a different result.

adambeneter wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 am
D.Ipsum wrote: 2a) In most cases, in LMMS the volume is displayed in % (you can change this via Edit>Configuratiion>Display volume in dB). If I'm not mistaken, the volume levels (velocity) of the piano-roll are relative to the VOL knob of the instrument. So, if the velocity value of a note in the piano-roll = 200%, the volume of this note will be multiplied by 2 relative to the value of the VOL of the instrument.

Regarding the volume, I would say that the only thing that really matters is that the gauge of your mixer's master channel does not reach 200% or 6.02dB.
yes, but i think panning couldn't be multiplied over 100 value ?
and still how to use gain knobs or in sf2 gain knob 0-5 range?
found also this, but there isn't everything:
https://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3235
Regarding panning, in principle it's the same thing. The panning value in the piano-roll depends on the PAN konb. But in practice, in fact, it is not possible to have a pan value greater than 100 (hard right or right channel). I do not know how all this is calculated.

Regarding the GAIN knob of the Sf2 Player, it does the same thing as the VOL knob (which is to the left of the PAN knob). You can just think of it as a second VOL knob. I believe that the value 1 of the GAIN corresponds to the value 100% of the VOL, and the value 2 of the GAIN corresponds to the value 200% of the VOL. You can use one, the other, or both. These two parameters do the same thing.

You have the same thing with the AudioFileProcessor with an amplifier knob that amplifies the signal from 0% to 500%.

adambeneter wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 am
D.Ipsum wrote: 2b) When you assign an instrument to a mixer channel (e.g. channel 1), by default, the signal passing through that channel will be sent to the master channel (channel 1 SEND to channel 0). The SEND knob allows you to send the output of one channel to the input of another channel.
input and output channels, volume, effects - thats still unclear to me:( I mean how does it affect the final sound for the listener? All these processing chains. Playing piano live there is one signal heard around the instrument and everybody is happy:) ...
Yes, it's pretty disconcerting at first. So, I'm afraid that my explanations are not adapted. Have you read https://lmms.io/documentation/? Although it must be updated, the base is there.

This too might interest you: https://lmms.io/lsp/

In any case, do not hesitate to ask your questions (one or two per topic if possible :P )
About the effects, look at the My Presets tab in the browser, and select one instrument preset, for example TripleOscillator> Erazzor.xpf.


In the FX tab of Erazzor, it has several effects:

- C * Clip: the clipper is an effect that affects the dynamics of the signal (other effects also affect the dynamics: amplify, compressor, limiter, tremolo, etc.). The gain (db) parameter increases the level (volume) and distorts the signal. Around -0.7dB, it acts like a hard limit. It's a bit like the master channel: when the gauge reaches 200%, anything that exceeds 200% is "cut" (in digital, a signal can not be quantized beyond the threshold of 0dB FS). Beyond 0dB FS, the signal is hard limited or clipped (in fact there is a nuance between these terms, but I think for now it does not matter).

- C * Eq: it is a equalizer with 10 fixed bands (each knobs is a volume knob that applies to a fixed frequency band).

- C * Phaser: Like the flanger or the chorus, the phaser is an effect that acts on the phase of the signal.

- C * Plate2x2: a reverb effect

- TAP Stereo echo: a echo effect.

- Stereophoic Matrix: a stereo effect.


To give you an idea, you can play with the :
- EFFECTS CHAIN ​​green LED: it activates or deactivates all effects.
- Green LED of each effect: it activates or deactivates the effect.
By the input of the channel, I mean the signal that enters the channel.

By the output of the channel, I mean the signal coming out of the channel.

The signal that comes out of a synth enters a channel of the mixer.

The signal that enters a channel of the mixer exits this channel and can enter one or more other channels of the mixer (via the SEND). In other words :
The signal that enters a mixer channel can be sent to one or more other mixer channels.

The signal that enters the master channel and comes out of this channel comes out of LMMS and follows a certain path before vibrating the membranes of your speakers.


Sorry if what I write lacks clarity (I use Google Translation more or less well with three keyboards (because some keys are broken), so writing something takes me a long time) :lol:
I understand that you are a musician and that you start in the world of digital audio and DAW (Digital Audio Workstation).

Necessarily, you will need time to gain a good understanding of how it works.

Out of curiosity, what instrument do you play?
And do you have an idea of what you want to do with LMMS? What type of music?