The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

[brandystarbrite]

No probs. I'm glad I was able to help in some way.

Hip Hop tribute? Cool! I'll be happy to listen to them, as soon as they're finished.

[Gps]

Something I like to share with you guys.

I started on a cover of deep purple child in time months ago, and failed horrible.

I could not get the notes to fit the grid in the piano roll.

After watching a vid of Musicbear I tried again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39uFMAoFOPU

I set the bpm to 58, and that did agree to my feeling how fast it should be, but I got into big problem, with the part ( intro ) played by John Lord. ( rip )

So I doubled the bpm, and guess, what

Then I had the same bpm as musicbear in his vid.

I am willing to bet everything I have, 58 bpm is kinda right, but ... you will run out of space in the piano roll, for the john lord part, and the drums part.
So for other mad enough to try to cover this. 116 bpm is right, and this should give enough space for the drum part of the intro.
The drummer kinda follows the bass part, but also the john lord part.

The more I study this track, the more respect I get for Deep Purple.


When you see musicbear's vid, there is somebody arguing the bpm he is using, for child in time, but to most readers here it wont be a surprise, he is right about the bpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfAWReBmxEs

[musikbear]

he is right about the bpm.

No i was not :P
Deep Purple was g e n i o u s !
Their music was super advanced!
If you sit down and listen to the rhythm in the whole track, you will notice that BPM is not static! BPM changes many times, but has one characteristic : generally it escalates!
That is partly what makes child in time's energy!
We are being 'lifted' from really low BPM (~60) to very high (~170) through the piece! (But not linear -No, in wave like patterns) That is why you almost feel like listening is a physical exercise. You are almost out of breath :p
Deep Purple plays with all the features, and that what creates this epic clasic, and it is seriously difficult to play!
(Remind me of an epic stage fail of Methalica. They (foolishly) tried to play Pink Floyd's style of bass on stage, and failed miserably! They were simply not good enough musicians !)

[Gps]

Well you're vid helped me, to at least get the notes on the grid.

I already had great respect for Deep Purple, but while trying to cover them, it only grows.

John Lord timing omg. On the edge of being too late or too early.
Don't know how to put it better in words. ( or is simply called syncopation? )

To make it sound right, I have to mess with note length, almost of every single note of the John Lord part.
( for the younger lmms users, John lord is the guy on organ )


I started around 60 then dropped to 58.
Then got into trouble, with the drums, and also the john lord part, was giving issues, if I wanted to stay on the grid.
At 116 bpm, I can at least have the start on the grid.
Already wondering, if I should double the bpm one more time.

The drummer follows the dang dang, daaaang , but then also follows the john lord intro to some extent.

tick, tick, tick , tick tick, tick hi hat roll

Another problem with deep purple, there is not much copy pasting, because most parts differ, even from version to version.
I once was told that one reason for this being, john lord did not like to play the same piece twice, especially not the same way.

The proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorZcOzNcgE

Compared to the lp version.
( the one I already posted )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfAWReBmxEs

To sound like jon lord we need a hammond organ, but also tweak it. A standard hammond organ does not sound like the hammond organ from john lord.
I don't recall what he exactly did, but some thing to make the hammond sound less cute, and more aggressive.

Pink Floyd !

For those saying how hard can it be ?

Here is shine on you in synthesia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyvJ-p4OtsA&t=596s

[musikbear]

John Lord timing omg. ( or is simply called syncopation? )

Yes, or whilted notes, not sure there is a difference. Believe Whilting is a jazz expression (?)

I once was told that one reason for this being, john lord did not like to play the same piece twice, especially not the same way.

Interesting! Tnx. Yes -many of these rock-genius actually do a lot of jazz like improvisations, especially in concert. I was at a 10cc concert as a kid, and they just ran with 'Mandy' for about 30 mins..!
Tivoli-Koncert-hall formerly EXPLODED in the end. We were going crazy :P

make the hammond sound less cute, and more aggressive.

Yes i think Ray Manzarek also has this aggressiveness

Pink Floyd !
Here is shine on you in synthesia.

That was interesting!

[Gps]

Yes, or whilted notes, not sure there is a difference. Believe Whilting is a jazz expression (?)

I have been wondering if I should try to play and record myself, maybe with using only one note, just for the timing and spacing of the notes.
I am for this track though, serious worried that will not work.

A midi file I have studied did help.

The one thing I noticed, that although the notes are on the grid, they are about all different lengths.
When I tried this in in my cover, I was getting closer to sounding like the original.

This also proofs I should stop making covers

( or at-least pick some thing easy )

10 cc, I have that on vinyl still, 45 rpm. Wallstreet shuffle and Silly Love

Let not try to cover this in LMMS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifWsOBr4Y9U

[Gps]

The first 10 seconds are in, but I am not really happy with it.

Its close but no sigar.

https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/child-in-time

[Gps]

I am gonna think, if I will finish the deep purple cover.

I need the midi file I have, more then I like.

[brandystarbrite]

The first 10 seconds are in, but I am not really happy with it.

Its close but no sigar.

https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/child-in-time

Okay. The tempo in your version, seems to be a slight bit faster, than the ones
on Youtube. Your version, doesn't sound bad at all though. And I think, you're in the
correct tune/pitch with the original. I'd say your version, is getting pretty close, to
the original tune, but I noticed it's a bit speedy, in some places.

Strangely, I like the tempo speed, in your own a bit more.
Maybe if you want, you could slightly lower down the Tempo, of your version.


Note: I am not too familiar, with the original child in time track.
But I have heard it before, and I have listened a few times, to the ones in the links
you provided us, before giving you any advice.

Despite not being too familiar with the tune......
I hope I was able to help, in some way.

[Gps]

Its funny, I never had this much trouble to even get the speed right in any cover.

I know the original very well, that one reason why this is so hard for me. I instantly hear, I am not doing it right 100%, but it takes me almost for ever, to get the notes right spacing wise.

Last night even tried a 1/64 grid. 1/16 is to rough. 1/32 might be enough, I am still not sure about that though.

While I was again looking at the midi file, I noticed some interesting parts, which might proof I need 1/64 for some notes. :O

I am at 118 bpm. ( the positive effect this has, the midi file is at 60 at the start, so I cant copy the notes

On the bright side , I found a nice free vst, that has a pretty good hammond sound.

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=283

Also need to try again the rotary speaker plugin again, that comes with lmms.

I am how ever layering the organ, with a zynaddsubfx organ, and a synth1 organ sound, and I think I am pretty happy for now about that sound. ( needs allot of reverb )

Right now really struggling at 0.20 in. I am pretty close, but its not 100% right. Do I need 1/64 there ?

Made a screen shot of the part giving me an headache, the notes in blue are the problem.
Notices were the 3rd and 4th note are. It took me over 4 hours to get were I am now, with this part, and its not 100% right yet.