Sane volume for everything, please. Especially chords.

Anything that doesn't fit into other topics goes here!
Hello.
As you can see, instead of being abrasive and awful, I am starting this comment self moderated and civil.
Only by posting something really silly in reply to this I will start flinging insults and use bad language.

It would be really nice if lmms could be changed to display the same courtesy to my ears.
If I want to blow my eardrums out, let me have that option, but more often than not, this is not what I want.

I want to play multiple notes at a time and not end up with a completely distorted sound, like it is customary in pretty much all other audio things under the sun.

Thank you in advance.
Baffled User wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:55 pm
Hello.
As you can see, instead of being abrasive and awful, I am starting this comment self moderated and civil.
Only by posting something really silly in reply to this I will start flinging insults and use bad language.

It would be really nice if lmms could be changed to display the same courtesy to my ears.
If I want to blow my eardrums out, let me have that option, but more often than not, this is not what I want.

I want to play multiple notes at a time and not end up with a completely distorted sound, like it is customary in pretty much all other audio things under the sun.

Thank you in advance.
I will start flinging insults and use bad language.

Uh oh... insult flinging time :lol:

If I want to blow my eardrums out, let me have that option, but more often than not, this is not what I want.

Turn the volume down. If it really is that ridiculously loud, you either had your volume up too high to begin with, or you are using pure-ish chiptune waves that will destroy your ears regardless of the DAW. LMMS is not to blame for the sound design that you are doing, and the only solution we can possibly have is to restrict you from making certain sounds, which would honestly be an absolutely braindead thing to do.

I want to play multiple notes at a time and not end up with a completely distorted sound, like it is customary in pretty much all other audio things under the sun.

...no... this happens with literally every single DAW in existence. It's called clipping.

When the waveform in the top of LMMS shows up red, that does not mean that it sounds loud, that means it is loud. There is a major difference between those two. Computers cannot handle anything above 0 db, and once the sound gets above that volume it clips, giving you that distortion. Clipping is very bad, as the distortion sounds different on every set of speakers, and it is uncontrollable.

If you can find a DAW that does not clip loud audio... well, I don't know what I'd do, because it doesn't exist.

And also, playing two notes at a time is obviously going to make it louder. That is also (intelligently) unavoidable. Two instruments are louder than one, if they are playing the same volume.

The solution? Turn the volume down. Simple as that.

If you really, really don't want to turn the volume down on your individual tracks, you can easily put an amplifier (e.g. Amplifier, or Simple Amplifier) on the Master bus and turn it down to whatever you want.

I'm actually really good at keeping audio from clipping. If you ever need extra help with that, you can ask me, or the other composers here.
You're welcome!

Since I registered on the forum, I saw very little problem in the discussions.
From memory, the spirits got a bit heated here: https://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 1&start=10
But generally, I have the impression that there is no problem.

Otherwise, I can not talk about LMMS 1.2, but as you say, in LMMS 1.1.3, it is better to systematically reduce the volume of all the instruments.
I know that I can turn the volume down, and I know what clipping is and, yes, other DAWs clip too, but for that you usually have to work towards that.

How many DAWs can you name where you load a synth or instrument, play 3 notes and it clips?
I can name one, LMMS and it's reproducable by doing a clean install, new project, which has an oscillator synth track in its template, and playing a chord, a triad.

It will clip out of the box.

And that's just silly. I know no other DAW or tracker or midi synth even that does that, granted, I haven't used many.
Cubase, Fruity Studio, Milkytracker, some version of Magix Music Maker but I think that one lacked synths and was more of an arranger/mixer.
Then that playstation 1 music program, timidity++, fluidsynth, musescore, crappy casio children piano, banging spoons together.

I expect clipping from videogames or other aplications that don't primarily deal with sound on a substantial level.
But DAWs and co? Even a total beginner/newbie developer should quickly learn about the nature of computer sound, that playing two similar sounds at the same time makes them add up, three even more so, etc, yes.
I know that this problem exists, it simply should not be in a DAW.
(Although pulse audio had this silly preset of, I forgot the name of it but other applications could set sound levels and this resulted in max volume sometimes, blowing out speakers and eardrums of people)

If turning the volume down is the solution then the presets should come with a lower volume out of the box.

Again, clipping is just a fact of life in audio and computers, but either the sound engine is wonky or the presets are all precarious if playing simple triads clips the signal this badly.
Lowering them is a workaround that shouldn't really be necessary, as in, load a synth and immediatly turn down the volume, that's ...bad user experience.

But then again, the triple oscillator is already at 30% and after a while it gets ridiculous.

"Oh, yes, just turn down the synth to 0.000000000001% and you'll have something workable!" etc.

Why? Why must it be that way? I get it, free software, and I feel bad for complaining but it's such an integral thing that it baffles me.
It baffles me that a complicated and capable DAW that LMMS is has been created but with such a glaring weakness.

Do you need money? I am not too privy about the project, do you have goals? Are there options to do a donation and ask for a specific thing to be implemented?

What can be done to remedy this shortcoming, cause, yeah, again, I am hard pressed to find this in other programs.
It shouldn't be this way.
Baffled User wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:00 am
Do you need money? I am not too privy about the project, do you have goals? Are there options to do a donation and ask for a specific thing to be implemented?

What can be done to remedy this shortcoming, cause, yeah, again, I am hard pressed to find this in other programs.
It shouldn't be this way.
Well, I'm not involved in the development of LMMS, so my suggestion is potentially crap:

Have you already thought about joining the team at https://github.com/LMMS/lmms ?

From the outside, I understand that there is a lack of dev and testers. Otherwise, I imagine that you can contribute according to your skills and your availability.

I had read that there was a donation system for particular requests, but I forgot the name, I do not know how it works, and I do not know if it's operational.
Baffled User wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:55 pm
I want to play multiple notes at a time and not end up with a completely distorted sound
That depends on what instrument you are using, but you can finetune that once and for all.
Create a project and make all the settings YOU like, when you are satisfied, go to:
* File
* Save project as template
* name your template "default.mpt"

From now on every NEW project you open, will be YOUR template


Besides that, since you are new here Welcome to the forum ! Here are all our important links:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4740
-And a few rules for Avatars, signatures, posting and using the right sub-forum :)
If you like to introduce yourself, to the community:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4480
musikbear wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:52 pm
Baffled User wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:55 pm
I want to play multiple notes at a time and not end up with a completely distorted sound
That depends on what instrument you are using
You are right, some instruments are not utterly insane, but...

It should happen with exactly zero instruments.

If I have to approach your music tool with one eye closed, the other eye squinting, leaning back, having the headphones only halfway on, the main volume of everything down to 10%, an ear doctor nearby while actuacting the keys with a stick from a safe distance because you fear for your hearing or sense of getting current-year-like-triggered by insane instrument presets...
Then that's just no good.

And while that is hyperbole, my point still stands.

If you package a synth or anything and it cannot play a triad, or even a diad out of the box without clipping out the wazoo, then that's bad.
Bee ay dee, bad.
I'm happy for you that you managed to stockholm syndrome yourself into this, even if you seem to be a Dane, but as someone who hasn't been whipped into submission, yet...I can't help but remain baffled at the reality LMMS conjures up.

Also, of course it seems that the synths do come with presets, except the default one, that seems to be conjured from code or something becaues I can't find a "default.xpf" or anything like that.

What a pain in the ass.
It's a pain in the ass.
And I don't like it.

But thanks for the welcome.

Anyway, yes, I do have some developement skills, so I'm gonna look into this.

Doubt it's gonna be fun, though.
Baffled User wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:51 pm
I'm happy for you that you managed to stockholm syndrome yourself into this, even if you seem to be a Dane, but as someone who hasn't been whipped into submission, yet...I can't help but remain baffled at the reality LMMS conjures up.
You introduce this topic by asking to be treated with respect. It's OK, it can be done. So, you understand what that implies.

You're welcome :)

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 131 on Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:47 pm

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest