Low-quality audio output when Sforzando used as vsti

[sizemore0409]

I've always noticed this, so I have finally decided to mention it and ask for a solution. When I load Sforzando into Vestige, and then load certain SFZ files into Sforzando, the musical tones sound wonderful when played on the Sforzando keyboard, but it sounds terrible when played on the Vestige Instrument editor keyboard, or in the LMMS piano roll, or played back and exported as a wav file by LMMS. (For example, the Ivy Audio piano sounds superb when played on the Sforzando keyboard, inside Vestige --- but it sounds horrible and much lower volume when LMMS plays it back or exports it as a wav file.)

So Vestige and/or LMMS are somehow changing (degrading) the tone of the audio signal being played by Sforzando inside Vestige.

There are other sound fonts in which the same issue occurs; and there are many soundfonts which sound very good when LMMS plays them from Sforzando.

When I have Sforzando loaded into Vestige, notes played on the Sforzando keyboard should sound exactly the same when they are played back and exported by LMMS.

I never mentioned this in the past, because I used to think maybe it was an issue with my old computer (Windows XP, 4GB RAM). But now I'm experiencing the same above-described issue on my brand-new computer (Windows 7, 16 GB RAM, i7 4 GHz processor).

The Ivy Audio piano is so beautiful and realistic-sounding --- it's a shame I can't get that beautiful sound out of it when I'm using LMMS.

So I hope somebody has some good ideas on how I can resolve this issue.

thanks

[musikbear]

i think its because SFZ formate is not supported, through vst, but i am surprized that you can get nice sounds with one virtual kb, and not the lmms-preset-kb 8| ...weird
What device do you have chosen?
Can you link to the assets you refer to (specific player and specific SFZ file)?

[sizemore0409]

Hi, Musikbear;

I'm using the latest Plogue Sforzando, (found here: http://www.plogue.com/products/sforzando/) which I believe is the only SFZ player recommended for LMMS, and which, as far as I know, can only be used in LMMS by loading it into Vestige.

It plays SFZ, SF2, and wav files. It typically does a fantastic job of playing those sounds; and usually LMMS will faithfully output those audio signals generated by Sforzando when it is loaded into Vestige.

However, when many piano sf2's and sfz's (and some other instruments, as well) are loaded into Sforzando --- though they sound perfect when playing the Sforzando keyboard --- their volume is dramatically reduced (and sometimes the sound is muffled and dead) when the exact same notes are played on the Vestige keyboard, the LMMS piano roll, and the LMMS Sound Editor.

You can verify this using any piano sf2 or sfz file.

The one which most dramatically demonstrates this strange defect is the IVY AUDIO Piano sfz --- which is my favorite. You will probably not want to download it simply to test this issue, however, because it's over 4 GB --- but it's found here: http://www.ivyaudio.com/Piano-in-162

There are many far smaller piano sfz's and sf2's available online to download, though.

thanks

[musikbear]

Very good explanation, the one thing i focused was

: dramatically demonstrates this strange defect is the IVY AUDIO Piano sfz : it's over 4 GB ---

4gb is a lot, but you have 16, so emediately it should not be an issue, however im not sure lmms will handle a 4 gb preset in 1.1.3, 1.1.90 is prepared for giga-fonts, with a new giga-player. Those are (imo) absurdly huge, but should also have almost natural instrument output. It may be that this preparation for giga, also will let your sfx work better, ot that you in fact will be able to find a giga-font, that is even better than the ivory-sfx you like. 1.2 is near now ;)

[sizemore0409]

Hi, Musikbear and everybody;

I'm really hoping this issue can be addressed, because Sforzando (by Plogue) is such a widely-used utility, and considered very important by many music-producers; yet its output quality is greatly reduced when it is loaded into Vestige, in LMMS.

I challenge everyone to see for himself: open up the Sforzando standalone, load it with any piano-or-string (like violin or cello) Sf2 or Sfz instrument, then load and play any small midi file. You will see that Sforzando produces output at the highest quality-level possible for the instrument of your choice.

Then, open Sforzando in Vestige, in LMMS; load it with the same instrument you used in the standalone, and play the same midi file you played in the standalone. You will see that the quality of the output is dramatically reduced.

For me, this is a problem. Maybe for many others, also. It would be great if the underlying cause of this issue could be identified and resolved.

(I assume this issue resides in Vestige, which has compatibility problems with other plugins, as well.)

[slipstick]

Just tried it as you suggested and strangely I find Sforzando sounds terrible, completely unusable, in standalone but it sounds fine to me when used in LMMS via Vestige.

There's obviously something odd going on but I don't know what (I don't really use soundfonts).

Steve

[grejppi]

I'm not sure, but as you mentioned notes playing with a lower volume, there's a chance this could be because LMMS 1.1 by default thinks 100% velocity should be treated as 50% MIDI velocity. What happens if you change the base velocity of the instrument (on the MIDI tab) from 63 to 127?

[sizemore0409]

thanks, very much --- that was it!

How much do I owe you, and where can I send the cash?

[brandystarbrite]

thanks, very much --- that was it!

How much do I owe you, and where can I send the cash?

Which answer solved this problem?
Was it slipstick's or grejppi's?

[sizemore0409]

It was Grejppi's suggestion. I was not aware of the base velocity setting within the LMMS Midi tab. Turning that setting up from 63 improves Vestige's transmission of sound with quite a few instruments --- but it still doesn't provide the sound quality which would be desired. Vestige has many problems which I hope will be addressed and fixed in upcoming versions of LMMS.