How do I use "VST" instruments that come in .mse files

[Jinx]

Actually, I download VST files into a VST-incoming (or something like that) directory, unzip them to see if everything is ok, and then move the .dll and if there is one, the instruments directory to the c:/VSTplugins directory. It's an extra step, but I get rid of any .exe stuff (that is usually flagged as something nasty before I even have a chance to do a quick rm -rf ...... I keep my VSTplugins directory clean of "bad" files (executable zip files are usually ok, but sometimes.....). Never had to worry about virus files in Linux (or any Unix), but on M$ wInblows, you do. On Unixes, you just have to worry about worms and trojans (thinking back to the Internet worm of 1988 that attacked a weakness in sendmail and more or less shut the entire Internet down). In other words, I'm careful.

[musikbear]

We need to stop talking about VSTplugin-directory. Those are effects

Here's a text version of what the settings

Ok so the working-directory that ought to be under Documents is
C:\jim\lmms\
For the file structure to be normalized -eg
C:\Users\username\Documents\lmms\samples\VSTinstruments
You need to make this folder:
C:\jim\lmms\samples\VSTinstruments
In that folder you can can have any subfolder you like f.i.
C:\Users\username\Documents\lmms\samples\VSTinstruments\Synth1
Inside Synth1, you should then have all the subfiles that synth1.dll depends on! That goes for your non-functional VST too

ALL FILES inside the Zip MUST be in a folder in that structure that it unpacks in!!!

But you can also have single VST-instruments dll directly in the folder. F.i.
C:\jim\lmms\samples\VSTinstruments\MDA-piano.dll
That is also fine, but ONLY if the VST-instrument is a single dll-file, just like MDA-piano

Oki do that, and test again
Remember to get MDA-piano and NOT MDA-epiano

[Gps]

Actually, I download VST files into a VST-incoming (or something like that) directory, unzip them to see if everything is ok, and then move the .dll and if there is one, the instruments directory to the c:/VSTplugins directory. It's an extra step, but I get rid of any .exe stuff (that is usually flagged as something nasty before I even have a chance to do a quick rm -rf ...... I keep my VSTplugins directory clean of "bad" files (executable zip files are usually ok, but sometimes.....). Never had to worry about virus files in Linux (or any Unix), but on M$ wInblows, you do. On Unixes, you just have to worry about worms and trojans (thinking back to the Internet worm of 1988 that attacked a weakness in sendmail and more or less shut the entire Internet down). In other words, I'm careful.

I am 99.99 % sure the solution is in the post of musicbear.

But about exe files. For synth1 to work you need to run an file once, it sets up synth1.
So its either run that file or don't use synth1 at all. The read me file explains it, and this is the same for Linux(wine) and Windows


Only trying to point out, what musicbear already said, just moving the .dll file only works for some vst.

[Jinx]

> Ok so the working-directory is
> C:\jim\lmms\

For LMMS, yes, that's true.

> For the file structure to be normalized -eg
> C:\Users\username\Documents\lmms\samples\VSTinstruments
> You need to make this folder:
> C:\jim\lmms\samples\VSTinstruments

Show me where VSTinstruments is in the Settings-->Directories, or
in the documentation on lmms.io. Provide the direct link to the
chapter/section, please.

> In that folder you can can have any subfolder you like f.i.
> C:\Users\username\Documents\lmms\samples\VSTinstruments\Synth1
> Inside Synth1, you should then have all the subfiles that synth1.dll
> depends on! That goes for your non-functional VST too

Well, once again, I only use Documents for Documents (otherwise, why call
it "Documents"). Again, what's actually DOCUMENTED in the documentation
AND in Settings-->Folders is VSTplugins, NOT VSTInstruments.ND in
Settings-->Folders is VSTplugins, NOT VSTInstruments.

> ALL FILES inside the Zip MUST be in a folder in that structure that it
> unpacks in!!!

Uh huh. I know that. Have for quite some time.

> But you can also have single VST-instruments dll directly in the folder.
> F.i. C:\jim\lmms\samples\VSTinstruments\MDA-piano.dll

What is F.i.? Never seen that one. Also, it's
c:/VSTplugins/mda-piano.dll, not what you're saying I have.

> That is also fine, but ONLY if the VST-instrument is a single dll-file,
> just like MDA-piano

> Oki do that, and test again

Do WHAT? My directory structures, as I have CONFIGURED IN LMMS, ARE
FINE. They work for VSTs that are actually .vst files.

So, I want you to answer this question before you go on about moving
stuff around. Why does LMMS let you configure where (i.e., the path to)
different things if none of what you configure will work, and you must,
instead, you the original "factory" settings whether you like it or not?

Answer that. Also, show me where (provide the link) in the documentation
on lmms.io it says that despite the fact that LMMS let's you configure
your own paths to specific stuff, using the Settings--->Directories
screen, that you can't actually use the configuration that you put in
there, and must instead use the "factory" default. Please provide the
direct link to that chapter/section in the documentation on lmms.io.

Don't ask me to move stuff around again until you provide those links to
prove to me that using what I've configured in LMMS will not work because
that section of the settings is only for looks, and is not actually
functional. Good luck with that.

> Remember to get MDA-piano and NOT MDA-epiano

Yep, that's what I have been testing all along, and have said so over and
over again.

This thread is going in circles at this point. I do believe the answer
for why .mse files aren't working has already been given. They may be
called VSTs by VST sites, but they aren't VSTs, they're sound sample
files. Why the .dll files don't make those work, I don't know, nor am I
going to try to fix that (let whoever calls .mse files VSTs fix those or
fix the description...MSE instead of VST).

So until I see some actual documentation from lmms.io, proving to me that
LMMS lists settings for directories, but those are only there for looks,
and don't actually do anything, I'm out of this thread. It's gone beyond
the absurd, and just keeps looping right back to the same idea, that LMMS
has settings for directories that aren't actually used, and you must
still, contrary to where you've told LMMS to look, still use other paths,
i.e., the ones originally defined. Link, please.

Oh, and since, apparently, those settings are only for looks, why are
they even there? Why would a group of open source devs put something
like that in there and not use it?

[Monospace]

Fi, Jinx, I believe, is for instance.
It doesn't say on the documentation that VST instruments need a separate directory. There is no DEFAULT filepath for VST instruments, and the step is only recommended to reduce ambiguity so VST instruments don't show up as VST effect plugins.
>So, I want you to answer this question before you go on about moving
stuff around. Why does LMMS let you configure where (i.e., the path to)
different things if none of what you configure will work, and you must,
instead, you the original "factory" settings whether you like it or not?
It's not about that, Jinx. The only reason we're defaulting to the default preset filepaths instead of your configured ones is because it would be an inconvenience repeatedly cross referencing your posts to check your filepaths, directories, etc. It becomes easier for all of us to give you help.
Also, the documentation is slightly outdated, and must not be taken as the text one must go by. I've found a lot of broken links and other residues of time over there. I haven't, however, found anything wrong in the docs yet.
You are right, the mse files are simply instrument samples, and it's the VST dll that interprets them and outputs sound, assuming the VST dll is working right. So, assuming everything is fine, opening the VST dll should load the instruments within the MSEs in its GUI.
So, to be sure, we've come to the conclusion nothing is wrong with the directories and file structures. So our issue seems to be that the VST Sonatina Orchestra cannot, for some reason, load any of the MSE files. I don't think it's an OS issue, because I use a Windoez too, and I realise the VSTs were made with Windoez in mind.
Just to be safe, Jinx, can you check if, by any chance, the VST folder is properly indexed? I don't think it would cause a problem, but it's worth a try.

[Jinx]

> Just to be safe, Jinx, can you check if, by any chance, the VST folder is properly indexed?
> I don't think it would cause a problem, but it's worth a try.

What do you mean by "properly indexed"?

And for now, at least, there are no special effects VSTs in my setup, just instruments. Once I go back to gamedev (when the risk of finally getting ahead, only to have it taken (taxed) away from me and snapping me right back to where I am now, is gone, I'll be adding special effects. But I'll know which is which (instruments vs special effects ... not exactly difficult).

For now, however, it's all about re-learning the piano (using Keyzone Classic's Steinway Grand Piano (it doesn't specify grand, but its interharmonics clearly say grand, whether concert or baby grand, definitely a grand piano). And once I get back to even close to where I was as a kid (honor student at the San Antonio Piano Academy (where their goal was NOT to teach you how to play the piano---if that's all you were interested in, they'd "gladly introduce you to a little old lady down the street who will teach you how to play Mary Had A Little Lamb: all day long." Their goal was to create the next Bach, Mozart, etc) and eventually had their #1 instructor, who, out of at least 50 (probably more like 100) students, I was one of about four or five who were ALLOWED to have him as an instructor. Then, I want to get back to composition (also part of what I was required to excel at at the San Antonio Piano Academy), both on piano and harpsichord, and eventually going to full orchestration. I'll be busy enough getting back to that level for quite a while. But once I can teach my brain to let my hands work completely independent of each other without having to think about it, it will go much more quickly.

Oh, and just FWIW, Jinx is the (3 years old on 6Aug, already huge, with another 2 years of growing up left to do after that) Norwegian Forest Cat in my avatar. I'm Jim. I know, it doesn't say that. Just saying i now.

[Monospace]

I mean to make sure that the directory your VSTs are in is indexed. In Windoez's settings (I mean control panel here, 'modern' settings doesn't seem to load indexing options right), you can control what's indexed and what isn't.
Of course, while I doubt that's the problem, it's the only thing I could think of.
A slightly more questionable alternative is downloading another newer version of LMMS, and opening it as an archive with 7ZIP and extracting it to a folder so you don't need to install using admin perms and uninstall the previous. Then, trying again to load the VST plugin. This won't actually solve your problem: it will, however, narrow down the problem. If it works with the new version, then we can conclude the problem is in your LMMS itself. If it doesn't work, then we can be reasonably sure the problem isn't with LMMS itself.
(I know the extracting via 7zip and running method works decently well because it's what I did to get 1.3 alpha without uninstalling 1.2.0. It was a pleasant surprise.)
I doubt the problem is in version, because I use a version older than you and can run the instrument without a problem.

>And for now, at least, ... independent of each other without having to think about it, it will go much more quickly.
That's really fascinating! All the best, I'm sure you'll be able to learn soon enough
Gotcha, Jim. That's a lovely cat.

[Jinx]

I had never heard of file indexing, so I looked into it. I could not find anything about file indexing on my system, and then I found an article that seems to suggest why. It seems that indexing is not recommended on solid state drives, as it somehow shortens the life of the drive (and the other thing it said is that SSDs are already fast enough...which is true, mine is VERY fast. Does that answer your question? If not, please point me in the right direction. Thanks.

Edit: Just FYI, filesystems have never been my strong point. I know why fsck is pronounced the way it is, and why it used to be spelled the way it's pronounced..... So anything on the topic of filesystems should be an a pre-beginner level for me.

[Monospace]

Oh, I didn't know that. Well, that's something I didn't think about.
Yeah, that answers whether they're indexed.
Alternatively, you could index ONLY the VST folder? I'm not sure if it'd help, however. But again, not many Windoez users have unindexed drives, and you seem to have an issue with this VST... unlikely, but possible.
I've never heard of fsck... I suppose it's because I'm just an average Windoez 10 user. If you're a pre-beginner, I can assume I don't exist.

[Gps]

Something Monospace said, makes me wonder.

How did you install LMMS, as admin or as a normal user?

With games on windows the solution is often to run as admin.

It worth a try, as long as you got LMMS from this site.