Why LMMS won't record midi pitch-bend signals into piano-roll? (from midi keyboard or loaded vsti)

[sizemore0409]

LMMS recognizes midi pitch-bend signals from my midi keyboard and from pitch-bend wheels in loaded vsti's. It responds and plays the pitch-bent audio perfectly. So why won't it record pitch-bent notes in piano-roll? As far as I know, the only way to pitch-bend notes in piano-roll is to use that "detune mode" --- and that's a hassle, and inefficient, and often has no effect at all.

As always, I'm hoping I've missed something here, and somebody out there has some brilliant answers regarding this pitch-bend issue in LMMS.

thanks

[musikbear]

So why won't it record pitch-bent notes in piano-roll?

the rude answer is 'Because its not implemented', but the reason is that it is two totally different events. If lmms should be able to do that, it would mean then the pitch-bend-feature, should be added as data on top of the real-time-played note. From a programming pow, that has consequences! If pitchbending could be recorded, then the record-feature would be forced to 'listen' for that signal constantly. That is a HUGE cpu-issue, and would influence the recording-feature negatively.

As far as I know, the only way to pitch-bend notes in piano-roll is to use that "detune mode

"
No you can use the pitch-dial that exists on all lmms instruments, except Vibed (afair), maby that could even work for your purpose. I will explain that thought below.

--- and that's a hassle, and inefficient, and often has no effect at all.

Well the pitch-bend in pianoroll only works for instruments, that are not based on vsts code. Vsts cant use that model.

somebody out there has some brilliant answers regarding this pitch-bend issue in LMMS.

'Brilliant' i do not know, but ..
Try this:
* Connect your kb-wheel to the PITCH dial
* insert an Atomation-track
* Drag the PITCH dial into the Atomation-track
* Right-click the Atomation-track, and select Record
Then try to play and record. I expect the pitch bend to be recorded in that autamatio-track, and in replay, that should then control the PITCH dial, and you would have recorded the actions on your wheel.
:)
I would really like to know if i did a brain-fart, or brain-bulb :)

[slipstick]

A bit messy to set up but it works for me. At least with 3Osc and my keyboard the pitch bend wheel is automatically connected to the "Pitch" knob so there's no set up to do there. Then you have to enable recording in the Automation track, open the instrument track and press record in there and it records the notes you play plus the pitch bend.

That's cute...I'd never even noticed that the pitch bend wheel actually moves the "Pitch" knob in the instrument.

Steve

[musikbear]

A bit messy to set up but it works for me.

Hhehe i bookmark it as bulb then :)
Thanks for testing Steve!

[sizemore0409]

Thanks, guys. Yes, I know the pitch control in each instrument GUI works in the automation track. I use it frequently. It works great when you want pitch movement of all notes being played in any given region --- but if you want only ONE NOTE pitch-bent, in a region where there are other notes you don't want pitch-bent, then you have to deal with that individual note in the piano roll --- and then you have to use that "detune mode" feature in the piano roll, which doesn't work well (for some instruments, as you know, it doesn't work at all). That's why I was hoping that there was a way for the piano roll to record the pitch-bent note as I'm playing it. I still don't understand why it doesn't work. The notes I'm playing are all coming into LMMS as midi instructions --- and my keyboard sends out the pitch-bend command as simply another midi instruction, right? LMMS perfectly recognizes those pitch-bend instructions and perfectly plays the pitch-bent notes, in real-time --- so I still don't see why the piano-roll won't pick it up.

But I'm just a musician. You guys are musicians who also fully understand the underlying technology --- so I will trust you when you say it can't be done.

thanks again

[slipstick]

The problem is that in the MIDI specification Pitch Bend is a global controller. It applies to everything that is playing at the time. You can't really bend one note out of a "chord" on a single track which seems to be what you're asking for.

I guess you must be building the "chord" up by overdubbing individual notes so in real time you might only get a bend on the one note you're playing at the time. But in playback pitch bend will apply to the whole group. I think the only way you might get round that is by using a separate track for each layer of the "chords" so the notes you want to bend are on their own track. But that sounds a bit complicated to set up.

I play with a couple of other DAWs as well as LMMS and none of them will do what you want with recording on separate tracks. It's the way the MIDI spec works.

Steve

[sizemore0409]

I'm sorry, I think I'm not describing accurately. No, I don't mean bending a note within a chord. I'm referring to pitch-bending as it's normally done when playing a musical instrument, like a guitar or keyboard. When you're playing a riff which is made up of very many notes played within a small space of time, sometimes you bend one or more of those notes. When I'm playing those riffs and sending that data as midi into LMMS, which is then playing out that data through an instrument loaded into LMMS, LMMS recognizes the bend perfectly and plays it through whatever instrument is loaded into LMMS, and LMMS outputs the audio with the note bent perfectly. I was hoping that the music I'm playing through LMMS could be recorded by LMMS onto its piano roll, exactly as I'm playing it, including the pitch-bent notes I'm playing. Certainly every other musician would desire that exact same thing.

In LMMS, whenever I pitch-bend a single note within a small space of time wherein there are also many other notes being played, it is necessary but difficult to use the Pitch Bend controller on the automation track to precisely control the pitch-bend of that one note, without affecting any of the other very nearby notes.

If you want to hear a very good example of what I'm describing, listen to this track. You will see several spots in my guitar riffs where I bent the notes I was playing, then in LMMS I had to manually try to reproduce the pitch-bend, and was unable to do so perfectly.
https://soundcloud.com/a-sizemore/sherr ... -please-me

[musikbear]

it is necessary but difficult to use the Pitch Bend controller on the automation track to precisely control the pitch-bend of that one note, without affecting any of the other very nearby notes

Do you do this the way i described?
Slipstick is able to record the movement of his bitch-bend KB-wheel, and then there is no 'after' Its a situation of what you play live, lmms records
The automation-track must be set to Record
Have you done that?
Right-clicked it and chosen the record-option

If you have, what does not work?

[slipstick]

In LMMS, whenever I pitch-bend a single note within a small space of time wherein there are also many other notes being played, it is necessary but difficult to use the Pitch Bend controller on the automation track to precisely control the pitch-bend of that one note, without affecting any of the other very nearby notes.

If you have a monophonic line (i.e. only one note at a time) and you're recording the automation as we described above it doesn't matter how fast the notes are arriving the pitch bend will only affect the note (or notes) that are playing while you have the pitch wheel off centre. If you can be quick enough on the pitch wheel then the automation track will follow what you do.

The problem only starts if you have two notes playing at once (and that includes notes overlapping).

Steve

[grejppi]

From a programming pow, that has consequences! If pitchbending could be recorded, then the record-feature would be forced to 'listen' for that signal constantly. That is a HUGE cpu-issue, and would influence the recording-feature negatively.

It also has to listen to incoming midi notes and so far that hasn't been such a huge CPU issue... Besides note detuning and instrument pitch bend are two completely different things: the piano roll can't possibly write any automation for the latter because it knows nothing about the instrument.