Some features with details + My point of view

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Hello guys 😄

I'm new here. This is my first post 😅

So! First of all, have to say I met this program when looking for free alternatives to FL Studio. Yes! I came from FL wich was with me since 2012 until about 1 or 2 years ago. I left it, because I disposed of it by "non official methods" if y'know what I mean 😔 (but hey, I also used Audacity and recent forks now).

Since I didn't wanna risk my PC any longer, and beeing so short of budget (to not say hella broke), I've decided to migrate to officially free alternatives. And that's how I've found this one first.

Now...

I've seen on your channel description your YT channel, that you created this program straight to be a free alternative to FL Studio, am I wrong? Regarding that, I have to say something (ask for some things, in favor of the intuition mostly).

1) Tabs System: Currently I'm trying Tracktion Waveform Free to see what's goin'on (DAW-hopping doesn't do me right, have to say). And I noticed a cool feature that I've never seen in FL (switching between tabs for projects). Why stay like a FOSS variant of FL when you can go further from, or step ahead of it? This with a proper Drag'n'Drop function (not just on tabs themselves, but in all item fields the GUI can have), will make a difference. You may wanna get based on Notepad++ for more simplicity.

2) High-detailed Zooming + Slicing: There were few drawbacks of this program I found, in comparison to FL, but the one that keeps me from using this one, is the very limited zooming system. In FL this came in so handy for me, because I could snip audio samples so accurately, like to do a fan edit/mix of a song. And the lack of mouse/touchpad gestures didn't make it any easier. Sure I could do snipping on Audacity-based programs, but it's clearly no the same by far than FL. So, way more than aesthetics, a deep and accurate Zooming+Slicing with the mentioned gestures would make things easier for people like me, because it's more intuitive.

With all respect, if you pretend to make LMMS co-exist with Audacity (or one of its forks), why not just absorb ALL its features for a possible LMMS 2.0? Y'know, FL counts on Edison wich is an integrated audio-editing stuff, but you can have your own buit into your program. And way more that Muse Group took Audacity with spooky elements, so you may wanna get based on pre-Muse builds.

There's nothing more I can cover here, actually. About drivers and plugin support, I think you're working on it.

But there's ONLY ONE feature that can count as aesthetical, and it's something very simple: The Startup Template (the one we see when just opening the program) is messed up, have to say. This is something criticized by some producers on internet, if you ask me. You just have to let the Song-Editor shown maximized, and the rest hidden (maybe the Beat+Bassline Editor on top of this one, like in FL with Step Sequencer, but not necessary in my opinion).

That's all I have to say (for now 😏). I really hope you keep this is in mind, especially if you expect to get any further with this project (I dunno).

Have a nice day 😎
Welcome.

They, the devs, are already getting further with this project.

Unlike the fruityloops devs though, they don't get paid for doing so.

I have used lmms 1.0.3 and the latest LMMS is already a huge step up.

I can't wait for 1.3, but I will have to anyway. :P
Gps wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:25 pm
Welcome.

They, the devs, are already getting further with this project.

Unlike the fruityloops devs though, they don't get paid for doing so.

I have used lmms 1.0.3 and the latest LMMS is already a huge step up.

I can't wait for 1.3, but I will have to anyway. :P
Look, this is mostly a feedback, y'know. After all, we're in the section called "Suggestions." It's not I dunno this program is a FOSS. But I just hope they consider all I said when they get to work on it. That's it.
Cool feature requests.

Re 1: in-window tabs already a feature requested, see https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1911 and associated feature requests.

2. In the works. Already requested. Basic slicing capability available in 1.3 alpha. Oddly enough, while everyone's talking about how muse group is bad for audacity, I don't see any proof? Privacy Policy still says no data will be taken, and Audacity's UI has already been greatly improved ever since MuseGroup took it. Heck, it made MuseScore, one of the most well-known FOSS score programs. Almost looks like the fact the MuseGroup happens to be Russian is biasing people...
But yes, more sample-track power is planned, although a lesser priority because all the internal LMMS issues are given higher priority.
LMMS doesn't try to "co-exist" with Audacity in any way; rather Audacity is just recommended because it's one of the most powerful audio editors out there and happens to be FOSS. It's not a bad suggestion, but the option is either rewriting Audacity to fit into LMMS-core then intensely debugging, repeat; or building from ground up. And the latter makes more sense.


3 (Re Startup template): imo really the only unnecessary part of startup template is the Controller Rack, but the FX-Mixer is quite a useful window. And SE maximized means each time you click SE, everything vanishes behind it.
However, if you are unhappy with the current startup template, then you can just close the windows you don't want and move/maximize/resize the rest around to how you want them, then click File > Save as default template. You can make multiple templates, too.

Yes, LMMS is based on and quite similar to FL. However, it is also different: we are experiencing a dev crunch and too many enhancement/addition requests. FruityLoops has ImageLine backing it.
As it stands, we already have too many bugs- and bugs always get first priority.
Second priority goes to basic enhancements that make user navigation easier and add basic functionality. eg, automatically turning on envelope whenever AHDSR is modified.
Third priority goes to UI / functionality changes that add to consistency and deliver a better product in minor things. eg, equalizer fader leg should be the same colour as FX-Mixer fader leg, because it's inconsistency and logic-redundancy. Things like these are almost bugs.
The next priority goes to requests like yours, asking for large and vague features that add a huge amount of power and functionality and require lots of time and effort.
However, everything you've said has almost definitely been considered before.

Due to the aforementioned coder crunch LMMS is suffering, combined with how it hasn't received any backing by corporations who think it has high potential as an application (like MuseGroup decided to support Audacity with their own backing and assets, and now it has non-destructive draggable audio editing and cool stuff already; or how Firefox is owned by Mozilla but it's just getting weaker and weaker), means that even the first-priority bugs take a lot of time to get solved. It could take years if not decades before LMMS can give users the sheer power feature requests like these ask for.
All I'm saying is, it could be a very long time before you get the features you ask for, and I'm requesting you to be patient.
If you have any C++ coding ability, or can acquire it easily, then any help fixing bugs on the LMMS github would be really appreciated and is a one-step-at-a-time way of clearing the stones off the road to a brilliant application.

Check out LMMS 1.3 (alpha), the unstable nightly version, and watch out for bugs! Take a look around the github. Who knows, you might find more details to the answers you're looking for.

All the best with LMMS!
Hi Monospace, I just wanted to thank you, for sharing these detailed insights about the current development process of LMMS! This was a very informative read!
Antonio Vision wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:37 pm
Hello guys 😄
I'm new here. This is my first post 😅
First off, Welcome to the Forum Antonio Vision!
Here are all important links:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4740
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If you like to introduce yourself, to the community, go here:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4480

If i should add anything to Monospace' excellent post, it should be that LMMS perhaps most important and different feature is that LMMS is User-driven!
How often do you see the commercial developers implement features that are being requested by USERS?
We in LMMS differentiate us in that aspect!
LMMS is 100% User-driven.
Next to every feature you see in LMMS, has been requested by users!
When new features are being added, the flow is quite simple.
Usage-problematic bugs are most important!
Of cause they are!
That obviousness is atm a 'problem'. There are a multitude of issues that we need to address.
However some are extremely difficult, and maybe only one or two of devs can tackle those.
On top of that, there atm are too few devs!
That leads to a situation, where it is hard to keep up with requests versus bugs.
1.3 will be however also be loaded with new features, just as every release has been since the first release :)
We love to get new requests! Thats the userdrive! -But comparison with huge software houses commercial products is 'unfair'. I use to say:
LMMS shal be for music, what GIMP is for graphics! Everyone knows that PhS is more potent than GIMP, but at the same time GIMP still is loved by a lot of peeps -Still comparison with PhS is unfair -Right?
Well, I appreciate you took your time to respond, and the liberty to reveal such an info about development.

So, that said...

I have to make clear that 1st request is not urgent for me, and you can decide when it's appropiate to implement it. But about 2nd's, it is because back in FL, I could snip audio tracks in a very intuitive and precise way (through micro/nano-frames from each bar, in Playlist), and I'd give this program the due use with this feature into Song-Editor.

Anyway, it's not I'm hurrying you up to get it done or something, and now I know what you're going through, more I have to clarify that all I ask is you to consider this detail when you work on something about Song-Editor, that's it.

Thank you for your time.