Automation does not save

[musikbear]

Hello Musikbear,

Again sorry for forgetting you-
I have looked at you projects - Interesting -a bit chilling :p -And indeed big!

But on subject:
I noticed that you have some empty automation-tracks, both in 'working' and in 'messed-up' Are those meant to be empty?
Like in Bar 29 & 32 just under 'Klirrpiano'. Two empty blocks.
Does they have an automation-curve/pattern on your pc?
On mine it say "Ein Steuerelement mit <Strg> hier her ziehen"
Meaning this block is not connected to any dial at all
Can you give me name and bar position for some of the automation-tracks, that has failed to load correctly?
Just a pointer like the one i used above: Bar xx & yy just under/over 'xyz'.

[Yorrick]

Hello Musikbear,

Thanks for having a look!
About the empty blocks: I don't remember if there was anything inside ever. Sometimes I use blocks from the sample or automation tracks to just mark a point in the song. When the creation of the song goes on, I delete them. Now it's a while ago and I can't comprehend anymore, why they are there.


The messed up automation blocks:
68-85, two lines below "Klon von Bassbreak" (2 automation blocks)
158, two lines below "Klon von Bassbreak"
76-93, one line below "Klon von RauschPingPong"
107-124, two lines above "BG" (4 automation blocks)

When LMMS changes the automation, it always fills up the blocks to the maximum. That's how you can recognize them. They are completely full.

[musikbear]

The messed up automation blocks:
68-85, two lines below "Klon von Bassbreak" (2 automation blocks)
158, two lines below "Klon von Bassbreak"
76-93, one line below "Klon von RauschPingPong"
107-124, two lines above "BG" (4 automation blocks)

When LMMS changes the automation, it always fills up the blocks to the maximum. That's how you can recognize them. They are completely full.

This is bad, because it looks like you have lost connections to the actual chosen controllers/ dials
i would like to know if you see the same as i do, so Try this
Right-click any of the working automation-blocks in 'messed-up'
You should see something like this:

Obs the info about connections!
Now Right-click any of the Faulty automation-blocks in 'messed-up'
And you wont see that info, because the block has no connections!
That is the only thing i can see, and i do not have an explanation for it
But first let me know if you also see these differences

[Yorrick]

Hello Musikbear,

Yes, I see the same!
Amazing that you found it out!
I have no explanation either. I tend to think it is a bug. What do you think?

[musikbear]

Hello Musikbear,

Yes, I see the same!
:
I tend to think it is a bug. What do you think?

well 'bug' is maby to much. When i look at the same block in seso-working, there are no connections in these either. -Eg They also have the "Ein Steuerelement mit <Strg> hier her ziehen" request as 'name'.
What i think maby happened, is that un-connected automation-blocks can take a 100% value instead of a 0% value. Emediately that would look like a huge difference, but technically it is not.
The 'solution' is to never allow empty blocks in a project, and it actually also make sense, because leaving blocks unconnected, but still inside a project, would only bloat the usage of ram, and also bloat the project-file.
Maby there should be some check on un-connected blocks, and then auto-remove of those.. idk..
But in reality the unconnected blocks -Eg. the "Ein Steuerelement mit <Strg> hier her ziehen" is not used, and should be removed -or connected to a controller :)

Bug status : 'Maby' -But more need to confirm

[Yorrick]

Hello Musikbear,

Thank you for your evaluation of this issue.

It shouldn't be a problem for myself to delete the automation blocks which are not used and especially to not even create them anymore.

If nevertheless this problem should occur again, I will let you know.

Thank you, you have been very helpful!

[Yorrick]

Hello Musikbear and everybody who is reading this,

It happened again, the automation did not save. I had no fragments of automation blocks this time, only several blocks with only different pitch levels in one track, and no other automation at all.
I think now I know what the problem is: It has something to do with the RAM. Whenever the RAM of LMMS is overloaded, it doesn't load the automation correctly. And if one is not paying attention to that, he/she might save the project like this, and then of course the automation is lost completely.

And the same goes for samples. It's really great. Always double check before saving! This is my recommendation. Or do not work with automation and samples at all in LMMS.

[musikbear]

To qte you

My system: Windows 10 Home, 64 bit
processor: Intel core i5-5200U CPU, 2.20 GHZ + 2.20 GHZ, 64 based processor
RAM: 8 GB

8 GB RAM!!
That makes your HW next to 4 times better than mine, and i have not seen disappearing automation since 0.4 series
Neee, it must be something in the way you make the blocks- Do you copy the blocks?
Current lmms fails with that, just one of the many things that halts the release :/

[zonkmachine]

Hi Yorrik!

My project has 90 KB, approximately 50 tracks for instruments, then about 8 tracks for vocals and maybe 10-15 tracks for automation.

I think now I know what the problem is: It has something to do with the RAM. Whenever the RAM of LMMS is overloaded, it doesn't load the automation correctly. And if one is not paying attention to that, he/she might save the project like this, and then of course the automation is lost completely.

I think what could be happening here is that when you're memory is working hard, is overloaded, the machine will be just overall slower at things. Now when you open a project it will open more slowly and you have big projects. When the project is loading it's possible to cancel the load to prevent the user being stuck and that cancel button is connected to some of the computer keys, probably different keys depending on what OS you're on and what version of Qt is installed. Unfortunately the 'Return' and 'Space' keys are some of those keys and you once in a while press play, assuming that the project is done loading, but not all controllers was done loading because they are finalized last. Now you have a project loaded that is 99.5% done and you start working on it not noticing that everything isn't as it should be and if you now save, it will be with the borked automations.
I think this is the issue report that fits your case: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/3636

Does it sound plausible?

[musikbear]

Does it sound plausible?

I can follow you quite a bit, but
8 GB of RAM
Eight!
lol .. I have 2
But Yorrick, how long does you allow lmms to work, before you press a key? I have a project that takes 7 mins to load, and in that process there are long periods, where it looks like lmms is hanging.
lmms is not hanging, it is working.
Try just as @zonkmachine says, NOT touching any key at all, for 10 mins.
What then