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Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:20 am
by Gps
rghvdberg wrote:CRASH COURSE MUSIC THEORY

I'll just assume you are familiar with the layout of the piano keyboard (used in the pianoroll editor) and the names of these keys.

SCALES:
In western music we have 12 notes (thats the 7 white and 5 black keys on a piano keyboard)
Usually we don't use all these notes but just a selection; That's called a scale.
Most common scale is the major scale
If started on the C than the major scale is : C D E F G A B C ... yes all the white keys

If we count the keys between C and D we find one key (D#), this is called a whole step. Let's write this down as "1"
Between E and F there are no other keys, this is called a half step, let's write this down as "1/2"

The major scale is made of these steps
1,1,1/2,1,1,1,1/2
From C to D is 1 step
from D to E is 1 step
from E to F is 1/2 step
etc ..
Start on any key and follow the steps (1,1,1/2,1,1,1,1/2) to make any major scale

CHORDS
From this scale we can make chords : Take a note , skip a note and skip another ... thats a chord
C + E + G is a chord, D + F + A , E + G + B etc ..

DIFFERENT CHORD TYPES
Now it gets tricky (I guess)
The number of keys between the chord notes is what makes the chord type

MAJOR CHORD
Between C and E there are 3 keys (C#,D and D#) this is called a major third
Between E and G there are 2 keys (F and F#) this is called a minor third
A chord starting with a major third and ending with a minor third is called a MAJOR CHORD
So C+E+G is called C major, we usually just write it down as "C"
In the scale mentioned in this post there are 3 major chords
C,F and G
MINOR CHORD
Between D and F there are 2 keys (D# and E) -> minor third
Between F and A there are 4 keys (F#,G and G#) -> major third
A chord starting with a minor third and ending with a major third is called a MINOR chord
D+F+A is D minor, usually we write this down as Dm
In the scale mentioned in this post there are 3 minor chords
Dm, Em and Am

DIMINISHED CHORD
between B and D there are 2 notes (C and C#) -> minor third
between D and F there are 2 notes (D# en E) -> minor third
A chord starting with a minor and ending with a minor third is called a DIMINIHED CHORD
B+D+F is B Diminished, we usually write this down as Bdim
In the scale used in this post there's only one diminished chord
Bdim

THE 7 (VII) CHORDS
Sometimes the chords are given a roman numeral
I - C (c+e+g)
II - Dm (d+f+a)
III - Em (e+g+b)
IV - F (f+a+c)
V - G (g+b+d)
VI - Am (a+c+e)
VII - Bdim (b+d+f)

Remember that we can make any scale by starting on a key and following the steps (1,1,1/2,1,1,1,1/2) ?
This means that all major scales are constructed in the same manor and thus all the chords are constructed in the same manor.
So the 1st chord is always a major chord, the second is always a minor, the third always a minor etc, etc

NOTE:
1) Another important scale is the minor scale. google it :-)
2) You can rearrange the order of notes in a chord. C+E+G is a C chord, but so is E+G+C or G+C+E
3) More chords can be created by adding more major or minor thirds ...
C+E+G+B for example or +G+B+D+F or D+F+A+C+E+G ... experiment!
Thank you. Most of what you're telling me is not new to me, but I am finally starting to understand it.

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:40 am
by Gps
musikbear wrote:...waiiit a secd
This isent rocket science :p
We dont have to be quite so technical
Look here:
Image

This is the first progression
Armin van buuren - In and out of love
1-V1-111-V oriiginal in F minor. ( min - maj - maj - min )

We do not have to change scale, nor do we have to think about that ( min - maj - maj - min )
All we need is to use common triads, where they are posible
Because we are in Fminor (Fm) the 'I' roman-numeral-chord IS Fminor
It HAS to be minor!
It is NOT possible to make a triad chord with root on F other than minor
It is again exactly what i explained in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgx-_hMFYg
The same is true for 2. chord
It just the other way around
It says 'VI' so all we have to do is to count the notes in scale to the 6th scale-note
(numbered to make this easy) and drop the next triad IN SCALE!! -It HAS to be major!
Same for next one 'III'
Count from root of I to 3. in scale
Drop triad
HAS to be major!
Last is 'V'
count to 5 from root-I
Drop triad
Has to be Minor!

We ONLY need to know where 1. note in the scale is ...dohhh
And be able to count to 8.
Aaand know the structure of triad
Thats it!

Will a video help?

Heres is a pop-Quizz
If van buren had written this is Am
What are the chords?
:)
I think a third vid on chords could help others. If I had not seen multiple vids last nite, I doubt I would understand what you are saying.
But that teacher I mentioned was also doing this counting to 8. ( with keeping in mind the position of you're fingers so to say.

From the top of my head, start at a white key ( I believe it was C ) skip a key, and skip two white keys. (thats the chord and the three notes to be played together.)

I will come back to that popquiz, because I have to think about it. How to find the answer with out using google.
Good exercise :D

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 12:46 pm
by Gps
First attempt:

Minor chords: ACE, DFA, ECB Mayor chords CEG FAC

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 1:42 pm
by slipstick
Small typo...it should be EGB but other than that I think you've got it. There's also GBD (G major). Those are the chords that tend to work in the keys of A minor (natural minor not harmonic or melodic) or C major. Those are the scales that use only the white notes, as I'm sure you know.

There's also a triad based on B (BDF) but that's an odd one, neither minor or major (technically it's a diminished chord..but you're very unlikely to need it).

Steve

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:35 pm
by Gps
Woo hoo, thank you guys.

I just checked the project I had created for this exercise, to see if I did it right or messed up.
It was an typo, It even says EGB on the paper I used to write it down first.

I can live with the fact I missed one. ( and the others that are not minor nor mayor )
The list of chords in lmms is quite impressive to me.

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:56 pm
by musikbear
? ..mm van burens progression has 4 chords
..now we have ..5?
( I know that they are close together, but wrap them in rubber if they multiply :p -sorry for that one..)

If we directly transcribe vanBurens progression to Am (A minor) we get:
ACE FAC CEG EGB
4 chords ofcause, and in that sequence
Only then we will recognize it as vanBurens orr. music, just in an other key

And @GPS, you had them, and it good -well done!

But
How about the numerals.. ?
How are they now we are in the key of Am ???
Can you write the roman numerals for the vanBuren progression in Am?

(you will be surprised : )

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:49 pm
by rghvdberg
Play I - V - VI - IV and you'll have the chords for 80% of pop songs ... :D
The Four Chord Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:30 pm
by slipstick
Things must have got more complicated....when I started playing you could manage almost all pop songs with 3 chords I, IV and V7. And that will get through most of the blues too ;).

Steve

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:26 pm
by Gps
musikbear wrote:? ..mm van burens progression has 4 chords
..now we have ..5?
( I know that they are close together, but wrap them in rubber if they multiply :p -sorry for that one..)

If we directly transcribe vanBurens progression to Am (A minor) we get:
ACE FAC CEG EGB
4 chords ofcause, and in that sequence
Only then we will recognize it as vanBurens orr. music, just in an other key

And @GPS, you had them, and it good -well done!

But
How about the numerals.. ?
How are they now we are in the key of Am ???
Can you write the roman numerals for the vanBuren progression in Am?

(you will be surprised : )

This fellow country man is getting on my nerves ;)

But lets try, I am guessing those number wont change.

A is first note, F is 6th, C is the 3th, and E the 5th so I would think I, VI, III, V ?

LOL, that looks familiar :D

Re: The struggle of Gps learning music and sheetmusic

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:35 pm
by Gps
rghvdberg wrote:Play I - V - VI - IV and you'll have the chords for 80% of pop songs ... :D
The Four Chord Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I
Hilarious, and I am impressed, singing those lines from different song sounds complicated to me.