LMMS • Forums

Thank you, and something else I learned from this, why some one would want to apply a compressor.

To make a softer sound more present, without clipping. (seen this in many you tube vids, but finally starting to understand why and how)

The trick prob is to not over use compression, or to use it to fix bad mixing.

And now perhaps we can add on what sidechaining means for a compressor. As musikbear describes it so well basic compression works purely with the whole sound you're compressing...if that sound goes over the threshold then it is reduced (compressed). Great for use at the mastering end of things to keep the overall levels up and for things like adding a bit of punch to individual tracks and with real instruments e.g. for adding sustain to a guitar.

What sidechaining does is arranges that the sound which CONTROLS the compression is not exactly the same sound that is BEING compressed. There are two types of sidechain, internal and external.

Internal sidechaining (which is what the Calf SC does) splits the sound coming in and applies EQ to the part of it that is used to trigger the compression but it's the original sound which is compressed. So you can arrange e.g. that when the high frequencies exceed the threshold, the whole signal is reduced (that's basically what a de-esser does). Or for the Daft Punk/house style pumping you want the sound to drop when there are lots of low frequencies, i.e. when the kick hits. So getting the sound you're looking for depends on manipulating the sidechain EQ to drive the compression with only the part of the signal you're interested in. I'm pretty sure that's what SC Mode, F1 and F2 freq and level in the Calf SC are about.

External sidechaining (which many modern SC compressors provide) is rather easier to understand. It has separate inputs to allow you to use a completely different signal to drive the compression. So you can compress ONLY e.g. a pad+piano part with the compression being controlled by the level of kick. Because the sidechain is separate the kick sound isn't in the output from the compressor at all, it only controls the other sounds. And if I ever find a good free one that's what I'll be using .

And then you get to multiband compressors with or without sidechaining...but that's perhaps for another day or maybe year .

Steve

I am getting there but besides me not having a clue on how to control most plug-ins, why to use them in the first place, was / is the bigger problem.
So again thank you all.

I am still smiling, if you say compressor to me, I am most likely to respond with the question, turbo or (super) charger ?

Many not unfamiliar terms on it self, get a second meaning in my mind.

There is so much to learn about mixing.

Multiband compression, I am sure that is what my songs lag

I can think of why I would want to use that though.

About the F1 1 and F2 knob, it's almost what else can they be ? but I had for now no luck in using them.
But I now have a start point.

Gps wrote:About the F1 1 and F2 knob, it's almost what else can they be ? but I had for now no luck in using them.
But I now have a start point.

Sure the F1, F2 knobs are obvious but the critical thing that goes with them is the SC Mode (and possibly SC Route) knobs....SC Mode seems to determine whether the filters work as Low Pass, High Pass, Band Pass, LP Shelving etc. And that makes a huge difference. If I ever get all the modes sorted out I'll let you know.

But I am in real danger of spending so much time playing with synths and effects just to see how they work that I'm getting no music made. New Year resolution...do some real music not just projects to test LMMS/synths/effects etc. .

Steve

'F'-dials are afaiu frequencies for resp. sidechainer and sidechainee, but difficult to use with benefits.
You also have the 'mode', that should shift between different type of sidechaining. Again, not really.
I believe the real CALF-studio-gear gui (which only can be used on linux) allows for more settings, with better results
One rather important thing:
There is no sidechain-SettinG eg No 'std' setting that always just will work!
For every pad / input, there need to be made new settings. This is because of differences in frequencies and wave-nature of the sounds.

The way I understand it lmms needs lv2 support, then we could have the gui and the newer calf plug-ins.

The more I try to use side chain compression, the more I get confused.

it never seems to work like I want it. I might have to read this topic another 10 times.

Had 3 - 4 failed attempts, then dumped a side chain compressor on the percussion channel, and it works.
( totally not what I wanted, but the clap got softened when the kick, hits )

There is some serious voodoo magic about this plugin, on how it decides to work.

Because of this experiment and something I read, I do a question.

Can I side chain what ever sound to what ever sound ?

An example, I have a bassline with short notes, can I have this ducked when the kicks hit ?

Gps wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:34 pm

The more I try to use side chain compression, the more I get confused.

To facilitate the use of a compressor, you can use an oscilloscope, for example: http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4

The idea:
- Place an oscilloscope before the compressor = visualization of the waveform before compression
- Place an oscilloscope after the compressor = visualization of the compressed signal

If both instances of the oscilloscope are not synchronized visually, you have to reload your project.

To compare the signal before / after compression:
- open the two oscilloscopes,
- click on the waveform of the first oscilloscope, for example where the peak appears
- technical information appears, look at the dB
- click on the waveform of the second oscilloscope, in the same place as for the first oscilloscope
- in this way, you get a visual mark that facilitates the comparison of the signal pre and post compression.

Sorry, I do not know how to explain it more clearly, but it's very easy actually ...

8 out 10 times its not working, or I can't hear it.

The Calf side chain compressor.

That's why I am asking can you sidechain what ever sound to what ever sound ?

Or is there a minimal note length required for us to be able to hear it ?

Ahhh this old thingy, but with new challenges :P

Gps wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:34 pm

Can I side chain what ever sound to what ever sound ?
An example, I have a bassline with short notes, can I have this ducked when the kicks hit ?

Yes, that would be possible.
Firstly i need to know, what sc method you try to use? 'mine' or Umcarujes or..??
But there are alternatives.
Askn yourself -what does sidechaining DO
answer: it changes the volume of a dominant sound, so an other sound can dominate. So in theory, you could throw am automation track in songedito set it record and move the sound-knob in rytm to the music :D
Thats all there is to it
So the next Q is -What either in lmms or plugged into lmms can do that
A: LFO can do that
Well Discreet ones can
Ooop we do not have them in lmms, but we DO in Synth1! (amo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNDSCMp9uY4
Then theres plugins, VSTs
BIGKIX has a drawed curve that allows you to modulate the output in a shaped way, and that is how sidechaining is done in FLs !
drawed curve!
One day lmms will have discreet LFOs, then everything can be modulated with a drawed curve!
But throw a project with some basenotes as you stipulated, and i will try to side-chain them.

D.Ipsum wrote: to facilitate the use of a compressor, you can use an oscilloscope

Thats smart! I guess a thing like SPAN could be used too..