I wish Vestige hadn't worked! -warning

[popeye1234]

WARNING!

Maybe this is a known issue?
Some may consider this a funny story but it's not funny for me.

Vestige has worked immediately for every VST that I have tried (yes it wont record them in LMMS for me but that is a non issue). I can load as many as I like at once and use them all at the same time with no issues, or so I thought. Only one problem, as incredible as it sounds unbeknown to me the keys were mapped to the wrong pitch! different to every other DAW, different to a properly tuned Piano.

I have been learning to play my midi keyboard by ear since buying it in November, using LMMS and Vestige VSTs.
I didn't occur to me to test the key pitch against a properly tuned piano or other DAW, who would think that everything would work as expected only for the key pitch to be out?!!!
Now I am going to have to unlearn everything I have played. reteach the part of my brain that tells my fingers to naturally fall on the wrong keys. So much for the fluent solos I can now perform, in LMMS only!!!

I wish LMMS had not worked at all for me now. I have learned to play the keyboards with all the wrong finger positions!

I am using an M Audio keystation 49 (recognised by LMMS software), the keys are mapped correctly in other DAW programs.

It seems incredible to me that no warning is issued on the download page. Surely this has been noticed before?

Have I missed something? I know you can change the pitch (and save settings) for each VST but LMMS does not remember this change (it remembers the pitch figures but goes back to the wrong mappings with new figures!)

I recommend anyone test their VST keyboard key mappings against other DAW programs or known good Piano and if you do not remember pitch for that long check against a known good source such as this video for grade one piano on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09JZIZ_SPg

If they can straighten this out and get LMMS to record the VSTs then this could be brilliant but currently I am left feeling like a bit of a wally.

For anyone casually flicking through this, this is nothing to do with the settings for transposing octaves.

[diiz]

Vestige has worked immediately for every VST that I have tried (yes it wont record them in LMMS for me but that is a non issue).

What do you mean by recording? If you want to record the notes you play, that should be possible. You have to open an instrument track in piano roll, then you can record the notes there. Then you can play back the notes through a VST or any other instrument. You can then export the song as a wav or ogg file.

I didn't occur to me to test the key pitch against a properly tuned piano or other DAW, who would think that everything would work as expected only for the key pitch to be out?!!!

What exactly do you mean? A4 produces 440hz, as it should. I just tried it with triple osc, comparing the output with a generated sine wave in Audacity, they're identical.

If you're using some VST that produces a different pitch, then the problem is with that particular VST, not with LMMS. Some VST's are known to have problems with LMMS, and some are known to not render properly with output other than 44.1khz.

[popeye1234]

Vestige has worked immediately for every VST that I have tried (yes it wont record them in LMMS for me but that is a non issue).

What do you mean by recording? If you want to record the notes you play, that should be possible. You have to open an instrument track in piano roll, then you can record the notes there. Then you can play back the notes through a VST or any other instrument. You can then export the song as a wav or ogg file.

I didn't occur to me to test the key pitch against a properly tuned piano or other DAW, who would think that everything would work as expected only for the key pitch to be out?!!!

What exactly do you mean? A4 produces 440hz, as it should. I just tried it with triple osc, comparing the output with a generated sine wave in Audacity, they're identical.

If you're using some VST that produces a different pitch, then the problem is with that particular VST, not with LMMS. Some VST's are known to have problems with LMMS, and some are known to not render properly with output other than 44.1khz.

Hi Diz,
Not one VST, all of them. I have tried many, many VSTs. Both 64bit and 32bit. All same pitch issue in LMMS 64bit for Windows.

What do you mean by recording? If you want to record the notes you play, that should be possible. You have to open an instrument track in piano roll, then you can record the notes there. Then you can play back the notes through a VST or any other instrument. You can then export the song as a wav or ogg file..

I do this exactly as you say with Piano roll. Also I initially looked at trouble shooting online guides. No joy, gave up on that function. Doesn't matter, I recorded what I was playing and layered tracks in Audicity instead. I use LMMS to open the VST's. Or I did, currently using Ableton Live as it does not have this weird problem.

If you're using some VST that produces a different pitch, then the problem is with that particular VST, not with LMMS. Some VST's are known to have problems with LMMS, and some are known to not render properly with output other than 44.1khz

Again, no.
This occurs on ALL VSTs in the same way and does not happen in Ableton. I have discovered I have to play a different set of keys in Ableton and Air Ignite and Soundfont Manager and Cantabile Lite (all the same different set of keys, which also correspond with the ones use by the performer in the video link).

I wonder if this is a quirk linked to the use of 64bit Windows version of LMMS with 64bit LMMS.

[popeye1234]

Dizz,
I am talking about Vestige (the VST player, hence the title!).
Triple Osc (not for external VSTs) indeed functions correctly for what it's worth. This has not interested me, but it is a quicker form of reference that my crude youtube video method I suppose, although it is not as direct.

My point is all about Vestige. The VST player function. The only function that I have been interested in since finding that midi did not record with piano roll in this version of LMMS.

It is a shame because I can open multiple instances of VSTs in LMMS at once (they just have the pitch off!). or I can load just any one of them.
Always the same issue, whether I use one or multiple VSTs the pitch will be out on all of them, in the same way. You could use any of the horrible, crude, built in synths to check the pitch difference with VSTs.

[musikbear]

not sure i got peep out of all this, but i have a nagging feeling that this is about base-tuning. Back in pre-beta there was a long, and nerdy discussion of whether lmms default should tune in A or C (green square since 0.7 in all presets) - A won.. The mention of 'finger-posistion', makes me think of wheather some specific 'piano school' could be in the mix.. The posistion on keyboard to ..say play D#min would then refere to fingers ..and those would be wrong if the base-tuning in the 'school' is supposed to be C, and not A
Too bad- but not difficult to alter :p
Was i even in the same district as your issue?

HNY

[popeye1234]

HI HNY,
I thought I was talking in extremely plain terms so anyone could understand but I will try again.

As an example. If I play E4 to C4 (white keys) on triple osc (or play any of the VSTs in any other DAW program or for that matter play any real world Piano or any Synthesizer) they play the same pitch, the same correct keys.

HOWEVER to achieve same note pitch with LMMS vestige as with E4 to C4 with all other devices I have to move to the black keys: D4 sharp, C4 sharp, B3 (hopefully I am naming them right). This simply isn't right, it isn't done this way anywhere else, that I have found, or seen so far.

Hopefully that is clear.
Thanks for patience.

This forum posting process is reacting incredibly slowly today, several minutes per attempted post. I do not know if that is normal here.

[zonkmachine]

Look in the wiki about the 'Base Note'.
http://lmms.sourceforge.net/wiki/index. ... Piano_Keys

[popeye1234]

Owallgren,
Nope, That's not it, red herring.
Both the VST and the internal synths are set to the same key position with the green square. Also it appears that this is fixed for VST's, despite being able to move the green square nothing happens for any (or all) VSTs.

I can indeed move the green square to change the pitch of the notes of the built in Synths such as the Triple OSC. However doing the same thing for any (and all) of the VST plugins used with Vestige results in zero change. According to the position of the green mark they are set at the same start point anyway.

[zonkmachine]

What version of LMMS do you have?
What OS/version are you working with?

[diiz]

Owallgren,
Nope, That's not it, red herring.
Both the VST and the internal synths are set to the same key position with the green square. Also it appears that this is fixed for VST's, despite being able to move the green square nothing happens for any (or all) VSTs.

I can indeed move the green square to change the pitch of the notes of the built in Synths such as the Triple OSC. However doing the same thing for any (and all) of the VST plugins used with Vestige results in zero change. According to the position of the green mark they are set at the same start point anyway.

That's either a weird bug or you're using a really old version, because that's not how it's for me. VST's should behave the same as other instruments and be tunable the same way.