How to listen in mono in lmms?

[musikbear]

What knobs or image tools?

real mono is afaik not available, but check your sound-cards own UI, maby you have a 'mono' setting.
If not you have the option of sending one channels signal through both channels, but that is not really 'mono' -unless the sound is restricted to one channel. The tool for this is stereo-matrix.
Another way should be to use C*Narrower on master-channel with 1.0 value.
Again an approximated 'mono'
True mono means you only have one speaker, and everything is send directly to that one speaker, without any what so ever panning (- witch actually only is difference en volume in respect to channels), so best mono would be to pan all to just one side, set send to one channel for all, then use Stereo-Matrix to pan existing signal to other channel...... and then send that signal to Master
I believe that would make Master have two outputs with identical sounds... -But what a sick hazzle for that..
Check you soundcard UI first...

[D.Ipsum]

I delete my previous comment because all I said was nonsense

Question: is it stereophony or monophony if what comes out of the left speaker is identical to what comes out of the right speaker?

Until a few minutes ago, my answer was "monophonic of course!". But now, I wonder if I have not a little too extended the meaning of the terms monophony and stereophony ...

[D.Ipsum]

Question: is it stereophony or monophony if what comes out of the left speaker is identical to what comes out of the right speaker?

Uh, i dont understand a little bit. Monitors are stereophonic, i think mono is only from one source of sound, so the single monitor. If we have two monitors playing the same from one or two channels it will be already stereo, but heard as mono, until making any changes in the channels, then stereo. But im not a pro in this matter

I guess the answer to my question is "it depends" ...


I copy and modifiy part of the comment I deleted:

The "true" monophonic sound file = a sound file containing only one (mono) track that will pass through one (or more) speakers.

The "false" (or "doubly true") monophonic sound file = a sound file containing two identical (mono) tracks (or one with sound and the other with silence if you have a 100% L or R panned) that will pass through one or more speakers, but usually two, one for the left speaker and the other for the right speaker (so your sound file is unnecessarily heavy, it weighs twice as much as a truly mono audio file). This sound file is stereophonic, but what you ear is monophonic.

The stereophonic sound file = a sound file containing two different (mono) tracks, that will pass through one or more speakers, but usually two, one for the left speaker and the other for the right speaker. This sound file is stereophonic, and what you ear too.


As LMMS exports your project to a file containing two tracks, you can’t obtain a "true" monophonic[/b] sound file with LMMS.

The C*Narrower with strength = 1 is the fastest way to obtain monophony (place it last in the EFFECTS CHAIN of the master channel).

To verify that the C * Narrower allows to obtain a monophonic signal, you can use a goniometer (I use EasySSP that you can download here https://au.tomatl.org/ ).With the goniometer (left frame in EasySSP), monophony = vertical line.

To verify that the C*Narrower allows to obtain a monophonic signal you can also use Audacity:

- export your LMMS project with the C*Narrower,
- import your file in Audacity (so one audio file containing two tracks),
- in the audio file, click on the bar containing the name of the track,
- select Split stereo to mono,
- select one of the two split tracks,
- in Effects, select Invert (this inverts the phase of the track selected),
- click on Play : you do not hear anything,
- select your two tracks, and in Tracks, click on Mix and Render: you get an audio file containing one silent track (it's flat, there is no waveform).


In one of your projects, to check what part of your signal is stereo :

- import one of your file in Audacity,
- in the audio file, click on the bar containing the name of the track,
- select Split stereo to mono,
- select one of the two split tracks,
- in Effects, select Invert (this inverts the phase of the track selected),
- click on Play : if you hear something, what you hear is the stereo component,
- select your two tracks, and in Tracks, click on Mix and Render: what you see is the difference between the L and R channels.

[musikbear]

If i have a pair of monitors, and physically disconnect one of them to listen all of mix only from one, would it be a real mono?

No, because if you have not panned all manually to one side, then some of the instruments wont be non-modulated in the mix
Remember -In true mono there is NO panning
-But i have done a project into 'mono', so i can make a tut on what need to do -would you need that?

[musikbear]

If i have a pair of monitors, and physically disconnect one of them to listen all of mix only from one, would it be a real mono?

No, because if you have not panned all manually to one side, then some of the instruments wont be non-modulated in the mix
Remember -In true mono there is NO panning
-But i have done a project into 'mono', so i can make a tut on what need to do -would you need that?

The C*Narrower with strength = 1 is the fastest way to obtain monophony (place it last in the EFFECTS CHAIN of the master channel).

ye.. that was also what i said rather 'curcious' because i am not absolutely sure a Narrower does it, but the check with the EasySSP is brilliant. I guess it will be safe to say, that a Narrower can make stereophonic mono-output. +1

[musikbear]

If i have a pair of monitors, and physically disconnect one of them to listen all of mix only from one, would it be a real mono?

No, because if you have not panned all manually to one side, then some of the instruments wont be non-modulated in the mix
Remember -In true mono there is NO panning
-But i have done a project into 'mono', so i can make a tut on what need to do -would you need that?

The C*Narrower with strength = 1 is the fastest way to obtain monophony (place it last in the EFFECTS CHAIN of the master channel).

ye.. that was also what i said rather 'curcious' because i am not absolutely sure a Narrower does it, but the check with the EasySSP is brilliant. I guess it will be safe to say, that a Narrower can make stereophonic mono-output. +1

----------edit-----------
Nope using a Narrower is not correct.
The output of Master changes if panning is being done in the instrument channels. If this setup with Narrower should create mono (in both speakers), panning of the instrument, should not be able to change the Master-channel output. This output does change, so using the Narrower will create identical outputs in both channels, but it will be the wrong output!
Panned instruments, will simply have lower volume.
Mono-Narrower is not even an approximation to mono. It is wrong!
The output of EasySSP only show, that the output in both stereo-channel is identical, it does not detect that panned instruments are with lover volume

[D.Ipsum]

If i have a pair of monitors, and physically disconnect one of them to listen all of mix only from one, would it be a real mono?

No, because if you have not panned all manually to one side, then some of the instruments wont be non-modulated in the mix
Remember -In true mono there is NO panning
-But i have done a project into 'mono', so i can make a tut on what need to do -would you need that?

The C*Narrower with strength = 1 is the fastest way to obtain monophony (place it last in the EFFECTS CHAIN of the master channel).

ye.. that was also what i said rather 'curcious' because i am not absolutely sure a Narrower does it, but the check with the EasySSP is brilliant. I guess it will be safe to say, that a Narrower can make stereophonic mono-output. +1

----------edit-----------
Nope using a Narrower is not correct.
The output of Master changes if panning is being done in the instrument channels. If this setup with Narrower should create mono (in both speakers), panning of the instrument, should not be able to change the Master-channel output. This output does change, so using the Narrower will create identical outputs in both channels, but it will be the wrong output!
Panned instruments, will simply have lower volume.
Mono-Narrower is not even an approximation to mono. It is wrong!
The output of EasySSP only show, that the output in both stereo-channel is identical, it does not detect that panned instruments are with lover volume

Indeed, if you have a 100% left paned sound at 0dB, when you place the narrower (stregnth = 1), the amplitude is distributed in both channels, you get -6dB left and -6dB right (tested with s(M)exoscope that you can download at http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4 ).

And if you have a sound centered at 0dB (so 0dB left and 0dB right), when you place the narrower, the sound remains centered at 0dB.

I do not know how it goes with real mono. I should deepen the question.


@adambeneter, Audacity allows you to turn your stereo audio file into a true mono via Tracks > Stereo to mono track.

[D.Ipsum]

No, because if you have not panned all manually to one side, then some of the instruments wont be non-modulated in the mix
Remember -In true mono there is NO panning
-But i have done a project into 'mono', so i can make a tut on what need to do -would you need that?



ye.. that was also what i said rather 'curcious' because i am not absolutely sure a Narrower does it, but the check with the EasySSP is brilliant. I guess it will be safe to say, that a Narrower can make stereophonic mono-output. +1

----------edit-----------
Nope using a Narrower is not correct.
The output of Master changes if panning is being done in the instrument channels. If this setup with Narrower should create mono (in both speakers), panning of the instrument, should not be able to change the Master-channel output. This output does change, so using the Narrower will create identical outputs in both channels, but it will be the wrong output!
Panned instruments, will simply have lower volume.
Mono-Narrower is not even an approximation to mono. It is wrong!
The output of EasySSP only show, that the output in both stereo-channel is identical, it does not detect that panned instruments are with lover volume

Indeed, if you have a 100% left paned sound at 0dB, when you place the narrower (stregnth = 1), the amplitude is distributed in both channels, you get -6dB left and -6dB right (tested with s(M)exoscope that you can download at http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4 ).

And if you have a sound centered at 0dB (so 0dB left and 0dB right), when you place the narrower, the sound remains centered at 0dB.

I do not know how it goes with real mono. I should deepen the question.


@adambeneter, Audacity allows you to turn your stereo audio file into a true mono via Tracks > Stereo to mono track.

I just did the following test:

- I created an LMMS project with a centered sound (PAN=0 and L=R), a sound that is 100% right, and a stereo sound (L is different from R).

- exported this project with the narrower (strength = 1), imported in Audacity.

- exported this project without the narrower, imported in Audacity, transformed into mono (via Tracks > Stereo to mono tracks), reversed its phase (Effects > Invert).

- Result: when these two files are read at the same time, there is nothing, silence!

- selected these two files and mix them (via Tracks > Mix and Render). Result: flat shape corresponding to silence.

Is it correct to conclude that an audio file with narrower ("false" mono) is the same as an audio file without narrower that has been transformed into "true" mono (whereas the "false" mono is a stereo file containing two identical mono tracks and which is therefore listened as being "true" mono, and that the "true" mono is a mono file containing only one track)?

[D.Ipsum]

The use of the terms "true" and "false" mono is not the happiest:
- a "true" mono file = an audio file containing only one track.
- a "false" mono file = a stereo audio file containing two mono tracks, but two identical ones.

So the only difference between "true" and "false" is that the "false" is twice as heavy as the "true" (in terms of bytes on your hard drive).

In other words, a stereo file can have stereo content (two different mono tracks) or mono content (two identical mono tracks). This is a source of confusion (or maybe it is me the source of confusion ...).

So, if you're looking to check the mono compatibility of your projects, in fact, we do not care about the distinction between "true" and "false". In both cases, what you hear is mono. You can listen to your mono file ("true" or "false") simultaneously on as many speakers as you want. You can listen to it on one speaker. You can also listen to it on more than one speaker, but it is not necessary since what comes out of other speakers is identical to what comes out of the first.


If the contents of your left and right channels are identical in your projects, there is no point in checking the mono compatibility.

In other words, checking the mono compatibility of your projects means first that the content of your projects is in stereo (the content of the left and right channels is different). And it is precisely because the content of the left and right channels is different that it can cause problems when your project is read or converted to mono ("true" and "false", we do not care).


So,

- to check the mono compatibility of your projects, I think you can use indiscriminately C * Narrower among other plugins (directly in LMMS) or Audacity among other audio editors.

- and, in a complementary way, to check the stereo component of your projects (ie the difference between your left channel and your right channel), I think you can use Audacity (I have never tried to do it directly in LMMS, I guess it's possible).


Really, if I'm wrong, please, give me an explanation.

[musikbear]

Really, if I'm wrong, please, give me an explanation.

Only thing i have left is, that if the Narrower worked, there should not be any change of output, if any instrument is changed in panning.
That is not the case.