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How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:25 am
by Electropocalypse
This is a very specific question but I was wondering. Does anyone know how long a bar is (at the standard 140 BPM?)

If it's one second, I suppose that would mean it's 1,000 miliseconds and 1/16 of a bar would be 62.5 miliseconds.

Just wondering because you can't manually set notes in arpeggio in LMMS, so I thought I'd try playing around with emulating this effect in Piano Roll.

Sorry for my OCD lol. :-)

Re: How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:06 am
by Monospace
It varies, but you should be able to check alignment within piano roll itself, or with Song Editor.
At 140 bpm, a bar is 1.714 seconds.
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Re: How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:55 pm
by musikbear
First off, Welcome to the Forum Elektropalyse!
Here are all important links:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4740
-A few rules and useful forum instructions
If you like to introduce yourself, to the community, go here:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4480
Elektropalyse wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:25 am
This is a very specific question but I was wondering. Does anyone know how long a bar is (at the standard 140 BPM?)
It is really not the best way to go, in respect to note-positions in arpeggios.
The reason is that LMMS does not have 'free' placement of notes.
The highest granularity is 1/192 of a bar, so placement calculations depends on multiplum of 1/192. It means that 1/192 is LMMS' minimum-spacing!
So 2 * minimum-spacing would be 1/96, witch also is the 2. finest granular snap or Quantification.
You could at least in theory suppress the snap of 1/192 with holding ALT, but no such luck, the note would still not be placed at a finer granulation. LMMS-file-structure simply dont support it!
So msekd is irrelevant in respect to note positions. You can still use msecd in envelopes and in sample-slices, but not in note-arpeggios.

Re: How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:32 am
by Electropocalypse
musikbear wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:55 pm
First off, Welcome to the Forum Elektropalyse!
Here are all important links:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4740
-A few rules and useful forum instructions
If you like to introduce yourself, to the community, go here:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4480
Elektropalyse wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:25 am
This is a very specific question but I was wondering. Does anyone know how long a bar is (at the standard 140 BPM?)
It is really not the best way to go, in respect to note-positions in arpeggios.
The reason is that LMMS does not have 'free' placement of notes.
The highest granularity is 1/192 of a bar, so placement calculations depends on multiplum of 1/192. It means that 1/192 is LMMS' minimum-spacing!
So 2 * minimum-spacing would be 1/96, witch also is the 2. finest granular snap or Quantification.
You could at least in theory suppress the snap of 1/192 with holding ALT, but no such luck, the note would still not be placed at a finer granulation. LMMS-file-structure simply dont support it!
So msekd is irrelevant in respect to note positions. You can still use msecd in envelopes and in sample-slices, but not in note-arpeggios.
I see, thank you Musicbear. This was just a little beyond my vocabulary. So essentially LMMS doesn't support extremely short notes for an arpeggio effect? I suppose my best bet is to clone and layer synths playing arp at different notes and sequence the timing (perhaps with just a little delay). I think it'd be neat to modulate the speed too. There are so many interesting things to tinker with!

I have a very long way to go but I'm glad I found this website. It's the best resource there is for learning LMMS!

Thanks again. :-)

Re: How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:14 am
by Monospace
You can use short notes for arpeggio effect. In the piano roll, near zoom option, there should be something saying "Q: 1/16," drop-down which allows you to work with varying levels of note placing precision, and the drop-down box next to it that allows you to change note length as and when needed.

Re: How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:55 pm
by musikbear
Elektropalyse wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:32 am
So essentially LMMS doesn't support extremely short notes for an arpeggio effect?
OOoooh Nooo That is not so. Just as Monospace says the spacing in LMMS is controlled by the Quantification-choice (Q), but the actual note-length is determined by the choice in the dropdown that default has the option Last-Note
You can use 1/48 std-notes, but if you want even shorter just
* magnify piano-roll
* Grab the edge of any note and make sure you can scale in current Q-value
* Hold ALT
* Drag the note without snap to any size larger that 1/192

1/192 is the general limit of all LMMS size-settings
Nothing in LMMS can be smaller that 1/192 of a bar, but that is also extremely tiny!

If you found this hard to understand let us know, I can make a tutor-video for it

Re: How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:24 am
by Electropocalypse
musikbear wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:55 pm
Elektropalyse wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:32 am
So essentially LMMS doesn't support extremely short notes for an arpeggio effect?
OOoooh Nooo That is not so. Just as Monospace says the spacing in LMMS is controlled by the Quantification-choice (Q), but the actual note-length is determined by the choice in the dropdown that default has the option Last-Note
You can use 1/48 std-notes, but if you want even shorter just
* magnify piano-roll
* Grab the edge of any note and make sure you can scale in current Q-value
* Hold ALT
* Drag the note without snap to any size larger that 1/192

1/192 is the general limit of all LMMS size-settings
Nothing in LMMS can be smaller that 1/192 of a bar, but that is also extremely tiny!

If you found this hard to understand let us know, I can make a tutor-video for it
I'm sorry I totally misunderstood you earlier. This was very helpful. I found the big "Q" and it does go down to 1/192. That is extremely tiny! I can definitely get any size note I need this way. I figured out how to zoom in too (Ctrl+scroll wheel). This makes perfect sense and thank you for helping me out there.

I was mostly wondering how you would convert BPM to seconds in one bar (or full note).

I found a calculator that does it but it's too complex. You get too many decimals... (Eg: 140 BPM = 1.7143 seconds in a bar).
https://toolstud.io/music/song-length.p ... _unit=bars

I'm mostly wondering about this so that I can match effects like delay (in miliseconds) with instruments in the song editor. At that point I think I should keep going by ear and do what sounds right. This always works good for me. Trying to be "exact" (within 1/100th of a second) on everything is probably unnecessary.

Thanks again Musicbear and sorry for my OCD. ^_^

Re: How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:23 pm
by Monospace
You can check in LMMS itself. Calculate the difference of timeline position.

Re: How many miliseconds is one bar?

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:32 pm
by musikbear
Elektropalyse wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:24 am
match effects like delay (in miliseconds) with instruments in the song editor.
Again, LMMS is one step ahead : D
All dials that logically can use timing, has in their context-menu the option: Synch-to-note.
You do not need to synch anything manually in f.i. Arpeggiator, because you can synch perfectly to all common note-lengths.
Though In AFP there is no option for making a selection of a specific note-length, perhaps we should look at that..