LMMS • Forums

Posted: **Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:49 am**

All sounds, instruments, beats, and even the metronome are completely distorted and echoing. I'm new to LMMS, but I'm comfortable troubleshooting hardware & software issues in windows. I stream as a DJ and all my systems audio is run through my dj controller. I'll list all my specs, then everything I have tried in an attempt to troubleshoot/resolve the sound issue in LMMS.

From LMMS.io site I originally downloaded LMMS 1.2.2 win-64, then downloaded 1.3.0-alpha win-64 and I am still tinkering with 1.3.0

PC Specs:
Win 10 Pro-22H2
Gigabyte Z490 Gaming X MB
i5-10600k @ 4.6ghz (Corsair Liquid Cooled Radiator)
Geforce 2070rtx 8gb
16gb DDR4 3600mhz cl16 RAM
Pioneer DDJ-400 dj controller
Audio-Technica ATH headphones jacked into DDJ-400 controller for sound.

Sound/Audio works in Chrome, Media Player, Discord, Virtual DJ, OBS, Twitch, Audacity & Games.

My attempts to troubleshoot LMMS 1.3.0-alpha win-64:
The first thing I noticed was changing any audio settings in LMMS requires a restart. To be on the safe side, I made a kicker bassline beat, then pulled up the Audio settings and started going down the list...Saving the project each time and restarting LMMS. Then I went back through the Audio interface list again without saving the project, just for good measure.

Audio Interface Dropdown: Adjusted Buffer size for every setting Min/Max/Mid
Dummy - No sound does nothing
SDL - Everything I researched says to use this, I could not get any sound to output; tinkered with windows settings also.
Jack (Jack Conn Kit) - Detects my 2 audio Channels - Right Click channels>Connect to controller...MIDI finds my DDJ400, no sound. Tinkered with all the options in there for connection settings, relaunched, messed with windows sound options, couldn't get any sound to output.
PortAudio: - Backend: MME, Win WDM-KS
WDM-KS Device: A ton of device options, DDJ400, Realtek outputs, both monitors, microphone, 9 options in total. Not 1 of them will output sound. Each Device tried HQ mode on/off, Buffer size Min/Mid/Max, Saving/Not, relaunching LMMS. Nothing couldn't get sound output from any of them.
MME Device: A ton of device options same as WDM except has Sound Mapper Output and DDJ400; These 2 device settings output sound. But the sound is completely distorted with an echo. OK, finally getting somewhere. Tinkered with buffer sizes, HQ settings, my dj controller settings, & windows sound settings and can't get any result other than complete trash distortion.

Then I thought it was the TripleOscillator, maybe the settings got messed up in there somewhere. Nope, messed with all the nobs for hours and the audio is just complete distortion. I tried removing the Osc, using other plugins, nothing...Everything... all sound and instruments are 100% distorted with a long echo effect.

I am completely out of ideas, couldn't find any fixes via youtube, reddit or forums. So now I am here. Hopefully, someone knows a fix, LMK...much love!

--DJ Benzy--

Posted: **Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:53 pm**

First off, Welcome to the Forum DJ Benzy!
Here are all important links:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4740
-A few rules and useful forum instructions
If you like to introduce yourself, to the community, go here:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4480

DJ Benzy wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:49 am
All sounds, instruments, beats, and even the metronome are completely distorted and echoing.
From LMMS.io site I originally downloaded LMMS 1.2.2 win-64
1.3.0-alpha win-64

You have done everything correctly.

PC Specs:

All good.

Sound/Audio works in Chrome, Media Player, Discord, Virtual DJ, OBS, Twitch, Audacity & Games.

Ok.

My attempts to troubleshoot LMMS 1.3.0-alpha win-64:

Fine approach

SDL - Everything I researched says to use this, I could not get any sound to output; tinkered with windows settings also.

SDL is indeed the correct choice for all windows OS
We can forget all others.

First i would ask you to load a test-project.
cold Reboot , and then open LMMS as only program running.
Then In projects\demos\Greippi Yuo find the project Krem Kaakkuja (SecondFlight Remix).mmpz
Load that and play it
Does that also distort the output?

Posted: **Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:14 am**

Thank you for the assistance MusikBear! Much Luv!

musikbear wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:53 pm

First i would ask you to load a test-project.
cold Reboot , and then open LMMS as only program running.
Then In projects\demos\Greippi Yuo find the project Krem Kaakkuja (SecondFlight Remix).mmpz
Load that and play it
Does that also distort the output?

I rebooted my system, then ran LMMS as the only program running to the best of my ability. I opened the demo, hit play, and still distortion. This was under the PortAudio MME.

Then I decided it would be easier if I just recorded what was going on so you can see and hear for yourself. The video has chapters and subtitles for your ease. In the video I show with audio; The distortion under MME, switching to SDL and testing sound, showed windows sound settings. Lastly, swapped back to MME to show Oscillator and Kicker beat sounds while adjusting Buffer sizes Max/Min.

I just whipped together an OBS scene so it's not the clearest video, but enough to see what's going on...LOL.
YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/v0AzhSP4uHA?si=OZzJlPjmLpyz2hZl

Thank you again MusikBear for your time and effort!

Posted: **Tue Aug 13, 2024 3:42 pm**

DJ Benzy wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:14 am
Thank you for the assistance MusikBear! Much Luv!

musikbear wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:53 pm

First i would ask you to load a test-project.
cold Reboot , and then open LMMS as only program running.
Then In projects\demos\Greippi Yuo find the project Krem Kaakkuja (SecondFlight Remix).mmpz
Load that and play it
Does that also distort the output?
I rebooted my system, then ran LMMS as the only program running to the best of my ability. I opened the demo, hit play, and still distortion. This was under the PortAudio MME.

Then I decided it would be easier if I just recorded what was going on so you can see and hear for yourself. The video has chapters and subtitles for your ease. In the video I show with audio; The distortion under MME, switching to SDL and testing sound, showed windows sound settings. Lastly, swapped back to MME to show Oscillator and Kicker beat sounds while adjusting Buffer sizes Max/Min.

I just whipped together an OBS scene so it's not the clearest video, but enough to see what's going on...LOL.
YouTube Video:

Thank you again MusikBear for your time and effort!

Very good test and description of this problem!
There are tree things i am thinking about as the reason.

1) The version of lmms in the video is 1.3. Have you tried with off. 1.22?

2)

Are you running several instances of lmms simultaneous?
There will be conflicts if they have different Audio-backend settings.
Shut down reboot and then open lmms 1.22 alone, and set the backend to SDL without any other driver info -eg the inputbox "Settings for SDL" should be empty.
Keep this setting by pressing the Ok-button
Shut lmms down.
Reopen lmms
Load demo project
Press play.

3) At -You say "With my controller". What is that?
Have you tried to disconnect your controller and only use your computer key-board as connected 'device' for controlling lmms.
I would hate that it is your controller, but it need to be tested

Here i want you to go back through all the procedures in (2) and try that sequence only with your pc-keyboard connected. We want to eliminate any influence from your controller

Let us know the outcome!

Posted: **Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:52 pm**

Thank you again MusikBear

I won't be able to swap LMMS versions until I get back home later tonight. I can clarify or answer a couple of your questions now though...

1) I originally started with 1.22, couldn't get the sound working. So I tried 1.30. I did a much more thorough troubleshoot in 1.30. When I get home I'll test 1.22

2) Those are my browser window tabs. I had 2 tabs of the LMMS website and forums open. I was only running 1 instance of LMMS.exe

3) When I say my controller I'm referring to my Pioneer DDJ-400 turn tables and mixer (aka a dj controller). I'll post picture below. The DDJ-400 controller is plugged into my computer via USB and my headphones are plugged into the DDJ-400 via 3.5mm jack.

I can assure you the DDJ-400 controller is working flawlessly. I use it multiple times a week live club style DJing on Twitch.

Hope this helps more testing coming...thank you again, much luv.

Posted: **Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:33 am**

DJ Benzy wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:14 am
Thank you for the assistance MusikBear! Much Luv!

musikbear wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:53 pm

Have you tried to disconnect your controller and only use your computer key-board as connected 'device' for controlling lmms.
I would hate that it is your controller, but it need to be tested

Here i want you to go back through all the procedures in (2) and try that sequence only with your pc-keyboard connected. We want to eliminate any influence from your controller

Let us know the outcome!

Alright, we have results and proper sound output through the SDL setting.

I stayed with 1.3.0a with the understanding that plugging my headphones directly into my pc would probably give me sound.
Yes, this is an absolute FIX and will allow me to use LMMS. Thank you, musikBear!

Swapping my headphones back and forth on a daily basis isn't ideal for many reasons. I would like to continue our troubleshoot, if you are up for the task, and see if we can figure out a solution to get sound through the DDJ-400 controller in LMMS.

Why I am so adamant about running all my audio through the controller?? You are probably wondering...lol, here's why.

The DDJ's onboard soundcard/audio interface is superior, in all ways, when compared to my PCs integrated sound. The DDJ is literally music production hardware.
The controller allows me to fine-tune audio dynamically on my end so I can hear everything clean and precise. Especially with bass. Windows gives me 1 slide bar that I need to hunt down and open.
Windows adds/removes/changes my sound devices every time I plug/unplug my headphones from the PC. I really don't like it when Windows makes changes to things all willy-nilly. It can mess with my dj software and streaming settings.(Virtual DJ Pro & OBS)

I am perplexed and would love to get to the bottom of this on why LMMS doesn't like the controller. I think we can find an ultimate solution or work-around. Either way, I am excited to finally get in and explore LMMS. @ MusikBear -- Much Luv & Thank You so much for your time and your help. I will be visiting your youtube channel soon. Thanks again!

-- DJ Benzy -- May the Breaks be with you!

Posted: **Wed Aug 14, 2024 3:59 pm**

DJ Benzy wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:52 pm

:

That is a piece of impressive hardware, and i can understand why you want to use that!

if you are up for the task

Of cause i am. We try to aid all our user the best we can, but i wont promise that we will have success this time, because the problems with your controller is properly not a LMMS isolated issue
Now that you have sound with SDL the focus point has to be the controller, and the most obvious next step is to make sure that the controller drivers is updated
Check that!
But then the next step is the driver-settings
Does your DDJ-400 has a GUI?
If so look for a stereo-mix option.
It would also be great if DDJ-400 has a user-forum where you could ask some superuser about how to get compounded audio through DDJ-400.
Investigate that and get back to us.
OBS
About your use of ear-phones with a DAW
I wont recommend it!
Get a cheap set of jack-pluged external speakers and plug those in instead of your ear-phones.
If you be accident make even a trivial thing like a moog-filter max out >0.85, you can get PERMANENT hearing damage!!! - and there are 1001 other situations where filter-combos can result in similar events!!!
Earphones are dangerous in a DAW

Posted: **Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:17 pm**

DJ Benzy wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:52 pm
if you are up for the task

Awesome, thank you again. Let's see if we can figure out a solution!

About your use of ear-phones with a DAW
I wont recommend it!
Get a cheap set of jack-pluged external speakers and plug those in instead of your ear-phones.
If you be accident make even a trivial thing like a moog-filter max out >0.85, you can get PERMANENT hearing damage!!! - and there are 1001 other situations where filter-combos can result in similar events!!!
Earphones are dangerous in a DAW

I'm so glad you mentioned this...OMG, you have no idea. I didn't even think about it...I use pro music production headphones (Audio-Technica M50x) and they can 100% implode my ear drums. GOOD LOOKING OUT!!
The DDJ allows me to hard-cap max dB sound output I receive in my headphones for that exact reason. Then I can tweak it up/down in real-time via EQ turn nobs. I can also adjust the master output the same way.
Windows doesn't have that...death by moog-filter via windows 100% sound setting...AHHHHH

I'll be super careful in the DAW while using headphones not through my controller. O.o

Side note: What DJs hear is different than what the audience hears. In my headphones I hear the master output in my right ear (what the audience is hearing) and in my left ear I can hear the track I'm about to mix, but the audience can't hear it (it's called a cue pre-listen). This is what DJs are doing when you see them with only 1 side of their headphones on.

Of cause i am. We try to aid all our user the best we can, but i wont promise that we will have success this time, because the problems with your controller is properly not a LMMS isolated issue

This is only the 3rd program I've had sound issues with the DDJ controller over the last 3-4 years.
VLC Media Player, Filmora 13 (video editing software) and now LMMS.
I'm thinking it has something to do with how the DDJ controller uses multiple audio channels (I'll link an image below so you can see what I mean), but I can't isolate why a select few programs have the issue. While the majority of programs audio works fine.

Now that you have sound with SDL the focus point has to be the controller, and the most obvious next step is to make sure that the controller drivers is updated
Check that!

I checked the drivers and firmware for the DDJ-400, they were current, but I went ahead and re-installed them just in case. Re-installing the drivers didn't fix anything, same outcomes while using the DDJ.

But then the next step is the driver-settings

I'm open to tinker with driver settings, but I'm not sure what to adjust. If you got any ideas let me know

Does your DDJ-400 has a GUI?
If so look for a stereo-mix option.

No and Yes...I know right.
No: Pioneer does not make any software or GUI for DJ controllers
Yes: There are softwares for the controllers, but I don't think any of them let you run additional software through them. They more or less manage the audio hardware and outputs sound across multiple audio channels.
Softwares: Rekordbox, Serato, Traktor, and Virtual DJ are the top softwares for DJ controllers and other DJ hardware.
I use Virtual DJ Pro 2024, which is the most advanced software out of the group.

This is the VDJ GUI I use that manages all the functions of the DDJ-400 controller. I can use and adjust FX filters, EQ levels (high/mid/low), Frequency thresholds and bleed percentages, all in real-time during my performances. The things I can't do is create beats from scratch or manage multiple isolated instrument/vocal layers. This is what I need LMMS for...virtual 303, 808, and 909 machines.

Here is an image of how VDJ manages my audio from the controller and latency.
master1: controls channels 1&2 as a master output (what the audience hears). I use this to route master output back to my headphones.
master2: does the same as master1, but routes the master output to my computer which OBS uses to broadcast.
headphones: Allows me to hear channel 1&2 independently in my headphones along with master1 output. Only I can hear this.

Then there is a setting in VDJ that splits the headphones and master1 outputs into my left and right ears.
I'm showing you this so you have as much information as possible. Hopefully, it's not too much...lol

It would also be great if DDJ-400 has a user-forum where you could ask some superuser about how to get compounded audio through DDJ-400.

Sadly, Pioneer doesn't troubleshoot 3rd party software. I've tried their forums and their reddit. They always respond with contact the softwares provider for troubleshooting or issues. Another reason why I am here and not there.

I will dig around in Virtual DJ to see if there is a way or method to run LMMS through it. Thanks again for the help, LMK if you have any ideas or driver settings thoughts...much luv.

--DJ Benzy--

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:58 pm**

DJ Benzy wrote: ↑
Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:17 pm
In my headphones I hear the master output in my right ear (what the audience is hearing) and in my left ear I can hear the track I'm about to mix

Wait! Is that a feature of the headphones or DDJ?
If DDJ splits and mutes sound input, That is something that could be a reason
And connected to this:

I'm thinking it has something to do with how the DDJ controller uses multiple audio channels

I checked the drivers and firmware for the DDJ-400, they were current, but I went ahead and re-installed them just in case. Re-installing the drivers didn't fix anything, same outcomes while using the DDJ.

Ok it was just a longshot.

I'm open to tinker with driver settings, but I'm not sure what to adjust. If you got any ideas let me know

No i dont have any ideas about that without a UI where settings can be made, i am thinking like the one that NVIDIA has for graphical settings, activated with a right-click on an icon.
But sadly

No: Pioneer does not make any software or GUI for DJ controllers

Then again

There are softwares for the controllers, but I don't think any of them let you run additional software through them. They more or less manage the audio hardware and outputs sound across multiple audio channels.

I think that manage output over multiple audio channels is important. You should experiment with those settings, but make screenshots of 'pre-fiddleling' settings, so you can get back to current settings

Sadly, Pioneer doesn't troubleshoot 3rd party software. I've tried their forums and their reddit. They always respond with contact the softwares provider for troubleshooting or issues.

:/ Thats lame. but also typical for many of the markets leaders. Disappointing and just lame

How about a forum for DJs. Maybe you could find someone that has the same DDJ as you and get some pointers -Worth a try.

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2024 7:15 am**

musikbear wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:58 pm

DJ Benzy wrote: ↑
Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:17 pm
In my headphones I hear the master output in my right ear (what the audience is hearing) and in my left ear I can hear the track I'm about to mix

DJ Benzy wrote: ↑
Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:17 pm
I'm thinking it has something to do with how the DDJ controller uses multiple audio channels

musikbear wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:58 pm
Wait! Is that a feature of the headphones or DDJ?
If DDJ splits and mutes sound input, That is something that could be a reason
And connected to this:
The DDJ controller's internal soundcard & audio interface can split audio across 3 separate channels for output: Chan1, Chan2 & Master (Chan1&2 combined). I have the DDJ controller physically set to Master channel output. With LMMS I have tried using all 3 channels. I believe I understand WHAT is happening, WHY there are sound issues, and WHERE they stem from. I just haven't figured out HOW to fix it. This is what I'm thinking...

The controller uses and needs WASAPI, because it has its own soundcard and audio interface. The controller wants to do all the audio/sound processing itself. Most programs like Chrome, Discord, Games, etc... Allow me to force them into WASAPI, thus bypassing windows, and directly send audio to the hardware(DDJ Controller) via Exclusive Mode (aka DMA mode).

LMMS, along with a few other programs, seems to not like WASAPI. They want to use the standard Windows audio drivers such as; SDL, MME, or WDM. This is where everything is breaking down and the issues are coming from. I'm fairly sure. I haven't been able to find a method to force LMMS audio into WASAPI. I don't think using SDL audio settings will work with the controller...Windows is processing the audio with different drivers and the controller is like uhhhhh...what's this, cannot compute.

With that said, using PortAudio or Jack audio settings will probably need to be setting used if I'm going to use the controller with LMMS.

I have ASIO4ALL I could try tinkering with, but I don't like using it because it messes with all my current sound settings.

Technically speaking it is an audio driver issue: Windows standard audio drivers VS. WASAPI

This is where I am currently at. Much luv and thank you again musikBear!! <3<3

-- DJ Benzy --

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All audio is heavily distorted with echo

All audio is heavily distorted with echo

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