Many songs playing at the same time syndrome

[thedbp]

Hey

Total noob here, hope you can help me out. I'm trying to follow the "Melody and harmony for beginners" tutorial but I have ended up with this really messy https://lmms.io/lsp/?action=show&file=23006 piece.

I'm unsure if it's poor choice of instruments, poor understanding of harmonics, poor volume control or all of the above.

Do you have any resources you can point me to to get a good foundation? I'm fairly apt at controlling the software itself.

My dream is one day to make music like Greippi - Krem Kaakkuja Second Flight Remix or Tim Trance - Marble Blast Ultra-radio, music I can put in video games.

[mpxvm]

You can look at the remix made in LMMS, I guess could be a good starting point

https://lmms.io/lsp/?action=show&file=6337

[musikbear]

Hey Total noob here,

Merry Christmas! Welcome to the Forum thedbp !
As new to LMMS and maybe also to DAWs in general(?) perhaps my video Rookie-guide can be useful for you. Link in my signature!
Here are all important links:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4740
-A few rules and useful forum instructions
If you like to introduce yourself, to the community, go here:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4480

Do you have any resources you can point me to to get a good foundation? I'm fairly apt at controlling the software itself.

Beside Rookie-guide that is mostly about LMMS it self, you may be interested in some very basic music-theory

So you said

is it's poor choice of instruments, poor understanding of harmonics, poor volume control or all of the above.

Except for volume, its is all :p
The first thing you need to understand is that there is a big difference between an instrument and a Sound-sample. All lmms' instruments are in tune, as long as neither the PITCH dial or the BASE-note-selector has been changed!
That is not the case for samples!
You 'cant' play melody-notes with a Sample! Only A4 -eg the default BASE-note position will play the Sample as it was designed! All other notes are 'odd' or they have an 'odd' duration. Samples are meant to be used as percussion and as effects! They can be used as 'instruments' or what often is called one-shots, but they really are a special kind of effects like sirens drones or similar.
So using Samples as instruments is a wrong choice! -And that is also messing the harmonics up, and make this out-of-tune feeling.
So use Instruments for melody, and make sure all tuning is at default positions!
Does that mean that most of the samples are useless? No, but to use Samples as instruments, you need a multiSampler, and you also need to reSample the sample in all the frequencies you use in your project, that can traditionally be done with with audacity, but now it can be done with AI!

Btw.. Sfxr is not meant as an instrument either, it is an effect generator. It can be used as instrument, though.

[thedbp]

Merry Christmas! Welcome to the Forum thedbp !
As new to LMMS and maybe also to DAWs in general(?) perhaps my video Rookie-guide can be useful for you. Link in my signature!
Here are all important links:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4740
-A few rules and useful forum instructions
If you like to introduce yourself, to the community, go here:
http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4480

Thank you I've played around with fl studio in the past but to similar results. I will take a look at the resources you posted (and make a post on the introduction thread)

Beside Rookie-guide that is mostly about LMMS it self, you may be interested in some very basic music-theory

Exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!

Except for volume, its is all :p
The first thing you need to understand is that there is a big difference between an instrument and a Sound-sample. All lmms' instruments are in tune, as long as neither the PITCH dial or the BASE-note-selector has been changed!
That is not the case for samples!
You 'cant' play melody-notes with a Sample! Only A4 -eg the default BASE-note position will play the Sample as it was designed! All other notes are 'odd' or they have an 'odd' duration. Samples are meant to be used as percussion and as effects! They can be used as 'instruments' or what often is called one-shots, but they really are a special kind of effects like sirens drones or similar.
So using Samples as instruments is a wrong choice! -And that is also messing the harmonics up, and make this out-of-tune feeling.
So use Instruments for melody, and make sure all tuning is at default positions!
Does that mean that most of the samples are useless? No, but to use Samples as instruments, you need a multiSampler, and you also need to reSample the sample in all the frequencies you use in your project, that can traditionally be done with with audacity, but now it can be done with AI!

Ah, that explains a lot, also with my past experience with fl studio. Thanks!

Btw.. Sfxr is not meant as an instrument either, it is an effect generator. It can be used as instrument, though.

Oof, I thought it generated such a nice chiptune but now that you say it, its use in the second flight remix is just sfx as a jumping noise.

Anyway, thanks a ton, have I made this post on the right board?

[thedbp]

<Good advice>

https://lmms.io/lsp/?action=show&file=23013 Yeah this helped, quite a bit. Still trying to figure out the instruments but I'm sorta happy with this.

Any more advice to tie it together more? Is the cheesy synth a bit too overpowering?

[musikbear]

Any more advice to tie it together more? Is the cheesy synth a bit too overpowering?

That would be a question of personal preference, and also of what you want to express in your project. An instrument can be dominating and still the song is fantastic. The only thing you must avoid is an instrument* in the red meter-area, because that creates distortion and 'steals' frequencies where other instruments 'lives'.

( *For One-shots or effects its ok to hit in the red-area)

[NiftySardine]

I think the synth sounds alright. But the last two chords sound a bit off, and it's my fault.

In the tutorial I made you think that if you just stick to the white keys it will automatically sound coherent and nice. But I was wrong. In music everything is relative. To understand the problem we have to dig in to some music theory.

You set out to write a song in the key of C Major (the white keys). But the listener doesn't know that until you give them some context. So your song start with the chords Em, G, Em, Em, G, Em, G. And while they are both part of key of C Major, they also happen to be the *two most stable chords* in the key of G Major. This makes the listener think the song is in G major. (If you select G major in the toolbar of Piano Roll you'll see that it matches your progression except for a single note in the last two chords)

The next mistake I made is I talked about the importance of using the "dominant chord" but I didn't explain what it does. If the stable chords make you feel at peace, the dominant chords will give you OCD. It's because they're clearly not any of the stable chords but annoyingly close to them. It's like a golf ball landing next to the hole. You're just urging to push it into the hole. Likewise it's so satisfying when a dominant chord resolves to a stable chord. The second last chord of you song is B diminished. Diminished chords have an even more unsettling vibe and this chord urging to resolve to either C or A minor. But we end on Dm which is like yelling gimme five to your buddy and then going nah...

So how to fix this? Embrace that your song is in G Major. Move the F in the last two chords one semitone up to F#. That will coincidentally turn the last chord into D major which is the dominant chord of G, and that takes us back to the beginning in a nice way.

I hope that made any sense at all :S

I can also recommend the youtube channel 8-bit music theory because he shows you examples in video game tunes and explains them piece by piece. Even if you only understand a fraction of it, you can pick up some nice concepts.

https://www.youtube.com/@8bitMusicTheory/videos

[thedbp]

G-major suits it very well, any resources to get started with adding some progression?

[NiftySardine]

The first time I made a song I listened to "Call on me" by Starley and then copied the entire structure, like when do drums come, sweeps, verse, chorus, breakdown, extra vocal line etc. The music was mine, but the structure was a one-to-one ripoff.

Even if the only good thing about the end result was the thing I ripped off, it still felt cool to make a song that sounded like a song. And it was also a good lesson in arrangement. So plagiarism is what I'd recommend.

The Greippi song you mentioned was awesome!! But the other trance song could be a simpler song to start with as a reference. It all depends what you're aiming for...

It feels like the part you have so far could be some kind of drop.

[thedbp]

The Greippi song you mentioned was awesome!! But the other trance song could be a simpler song to start with as a reference. It all depends what you're aiming for...

There's a lot going on in marble blast but I tried https://lmms.io/lsp/?action=show&file=23021