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by Supper (supper66)
Size: 132 KB
License: Creative Commons (by)
LMMS Version: 1.0.3
Submitted: 2019-08-09 11:14:46
Updated: 2019-08-09 11:14:46
Popularity:  597   24
Rating:    24
Name: moving through forever.mmpz Download

I decided to use all the guitars I wanted this time. It turned out to be a lot.

I wrote some lyrics for this that no one has any reason to care about, but they're in the project notes and video description for completeness' sake.

Way too many instruments most of which add nothing to the piece overall save for making the file take decades to open.Posted by: AlphaRok on 2019-08-09 18:35:12
Also there is zero need for over 150 basslines ever.Posted by: AlphaRok on 2019-08-09 22:27:59
It's an unfortunate fact that despite many years of development, LMMS is still basically a toy meant for creating simple electronic music. I've become acutely aware of this after spending many frustrating hours awkwardly shuffling around hundreds of BB tracks in order to realize a moderately complex rock drumline, and repeatedly having to create clones of instruments with minor tweaks to a parameter or two because of how poorly automation tracks are handled. In spite of that, I think it's an interesting challenge to try to create something with LMMS that it was never designed for instead of just giving up and writing pattern-based minimalist electronica all the time. Maybe the results aren't worth the effort, but I've never claimed to be a good composer :)

And if you're complaining about the load time on this, be glad I never posted some of the REALLY bloated projects I made. I once had a project file that took ~5 minutes to open. And this was back in the days of the broken autosave, so every couple of minutes it was open, LMMS would freeze for about that long trying to save a backup file. What a wonderful time that was...
Posted by: supper66 on 2019-08-09 22:36:42
How is having hundreds of BB editors a better solution than using the piano roll that allows you to make infinite amount of unique patterns only using one row of the song editor. You are clearly frustrated with using BBs. I feel like most people, no matter the DAW, make their beats using the piano roll.Posted by: Squatro on 2019-08-10 12:34:12
@Squatro I'd certainly be doing that if it was practical in LMMS. It isn't. To make piano roll drums usable for complex beats, you need to be able to use the "MIDI style", where each key represents a different drum sample. LMMS doesn't have this capability and can only treat samples as standard instruments, where each key plays the same sample at a different pitch. To create a drumline that way, I'd have to constantly swap between at least 5-6 different piano rolls and would have no way to visualize the overall composition of the drums. On top of that, LMMS has no concept of "infinite-length" notes outside of the BB editor, so I'd have to make sure to stretch every single drum note out long enough to let the sample play in full.

The only way I know of to do MIDI-style drums in LMMS is to use the SF2 plugin with an external soundfont... but at that point, you might as well just make your music with a less restrictive program. And honestly, for me, using LMMS is mostly about "how far can I stretch these built-ins to do things they were never meant to do?". If I actually wanted to try to make a "professional" song using a slick interface and dozens of external plugins, there are better options (almost all commercial, unfortunately). Though I'm admittedly using a very out of date version of LMMS, so perhaps I've missed a few recent improvements.
Posted by: supper66 on 2019-08-10 14:11:20
Dude despite it's perhaps the worst workflow I've ever seen, what you've done is totally amazing! AlfaRok and Squatro, you have to give this guy some credit tho. I mean, the amount of work that has gone in to this project, bad workflow or not, and the complexity of the song, is just wow. That goes for all your projects.

I really like your attitude of stretching the limits of LMMS. That is how open source software can improve. Not by people doing same same all the time or by jumping ship to some proprietary program. Your projects shows LMMS has lots of room for improvement.

Maybe you could extend the length of your BB tracks to as many bars as you can, depending on your screen size? At least that would keep the amount of tracks down by a little...

Made in 1.0.3 huh? That was released in 2014. Maybe time to give rc8 a try?

Some of the new features I find useful:
- You have the option to clone the notes when you extend the length of a BB track in the BB editor
- You can copy multiple tracks with ctrl drag in song editor
- In FX mixer you can feed channels into each other
- Ability to flip automation tracks

It would be very cool if LMMS supported a piano roll / midi style drum editor. Yeah you could go SF2, but it's no good for automation, effects, and shareability.

I'd like to hear what you think of this workaround:

1. First write the entire drumline on a SF2 track
2. Add all the drum samples you need in song editor
3. Set release envelope time to max (kind of gives you infinite note length)
4. In piano roll on the SF2 track, right click on a key
5. "Select all notes on this key" (available on newer versions)
6. Paste to the corresponding instrument track
7. Delete SF2 of course! Nobody will ever know.... :)Posted by: NiftySardine on 2019-08-11 13:05:01
@NiftySardine Thanks! I enjoy making these, even though they take me so long to put together that I end up going months between songs. It's gratifying if at least one person appreciates the result :)

Your point about shareability articulates what I was trying to get at in my earlier comment -- to me, there's not much point making music with LMMS if you're just going to use a bunch of external soundfonts and proprietary plugins that could just as easily be used with some commercial DAW (probably more effectively).

I like your suggestion for using a temporary SF2 for drums, though it's still far from ideal. Unless you make a custom soundfont with the samples you intend to use, your temporary drums aren't going to sound the same as the final ones, which can hurt the synergy between tracks during composition. And using the release envelope as you describe was actually an idea that occurred to me, but it introduces the opposite problem from the one it solves -- for something like a snare roll or a cymbal choke, you don't _want_ to have the sample play out all the way. Again, the "proper" solution here would be to use MIDI synthesizer logic, where e.g. triggering a closed hi-hat will interrupt any other hat sample that's already playing... but at that point I'll concede that you're introducing a lot of complexity that LMMS wasn't designed around.

Still, I may give that a try once I finally upgrade LMMS... I'm still using the version from the old Debian repos because I couldn't get a newer version to compile, and given how infrequently I use LMMS these days, I didn't bother pursuing it further. I'll look into it again once I upgrade my aging OS.
Posted by: supper66 on 2019-08-12 06:48:45
Un des plus impressionnant morceaux que j'ai écouté ici, techniquement parlant, c'est vraiment trés bien fait, un sacré travail sur cette composition, et çà s'écoute,...Merci, de nous l'avoir partagé ici, superbement bien fait,...Merci,...Posted by: Chris M 03 on 2019-08-12 09:02:52